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	<title>Comments on: 5 Fallacies In the Coverage of the Copenhagen Accord</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: Fabricio Angelo</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-85315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fabricio Angelo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-85315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Sam

My name´s Fabricio and I´m a journalist working in a brasilian NGO calls ANDI. We have a website wich disseminates
informations about climate changes in www.mudancasclimaticas.andi.org.br.

We liked a lot of your article about the five falacies and would like to know if we can translated it to portugueses
and post in our website.

If you need more informations about us you can contact the coordinator of Andi´s Climate Changes departament , Aline Falco, in her email: afalco@andi.org.br.

Best Regards]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sam</p>
<p>My name´s Fabricio and I´m a journalist working in a brasilian NGO calls ANDI. We have a website wich disseminates<br />
informations about climate changes in <a href="http://www.mudancasclimaticas.andi.org.br" rel="nofollow">http://www.mudancasclimaticas.andi.org.br</a>.</p>
<p>We liked a lot of your article about the five falacies and would like to know if we can translated it to portugueses<br />
and post in our website.</p>
<p>If you need more informations about us you can contact the coordinator of Andi´s Climate Changes departament , Aline Falco, in her email: <a href="mailto:afalco@andi.org.br">afalco@andi.org.br</a>.</p>
<p>Best Regards</p>
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		<title>By: COP15 in Review &#171; Jeremy @ COP15</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[COP15 in Review &#171; Jeremy @ COP15]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 5 Fallacies in the Coverage of the Copenhagen Accord &#8211; One of the more important articles you can read to clarify what it all means. This gives a honest assessment of what happened without parroting the rhetoric found in most other articles. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 5 Fallacies in the Coverage of the Copenhagen Accord &#8211; One of the more important articles you can read to clarify what it all means. This gives a honest assessment of what happened without parroting the rhetoric found in most other articles. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Blanchard</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy Blanchard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 07:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the honest analysis. Far too often, commentators just parrot the rhetoric spouted by other commentators. I feel like you made a good case for your arguments and I&#039;m happy to have them in mind when reading other articles on the Copenhagen Accord.

Richard Klein, in the comments above, brought up some good counter arguments. I&#039;d love to hear if anyone else has any others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the honest analysis. Far too often, commentators just parrot the rhetoric spouted by other commentators. I feel like you made a good case for your arguments and I&#8217;m happy to have them in mind when reading other articles on the Copenhagen Accord.</p>
<p>Richard Klein, in the comments above, brought up some good counter arguments. I&#8217;d love to hear if anyone else has any others.</p>
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		<title>By: argumentics</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[argumentics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course it&#039;s hard not to feel for the &#039;developing&#039; countries when they take a dare and refuse a &#039;shitty deal&#039;. Nevertheless, we do not know for sure it&#039;s a shitty deal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it&#8217;s hard not to feel for the &#8216;developing&#8217; countries when they take a dare and refuse a &#8216;shitty deal&#8217;. Nevertheless, we do not know for sure it&#8217;s a shitty deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Cascadia Brian</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84825</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cascadia Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would encourage people to watch the video themselves...and then decide if the developing countries mentioned above are blameworthy. For me at least, it&#039;s hard not to feel solidarity with the developing countries that were refusing to sign a shitty deal:

check out http://www6.cop15.meta-fusion.com/kongresse/cop15/templ/play.php?id_kongressmain=1&amp;theme=unfccc&amp;id_kongresssession=2755

(be sure to click english!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would encourage people to watch the video themselves&#8230;and then decide if the developing countries mentioned above are blameworthy. For me at least, it&#8217;s hard not to feel solidarity with the developing countries that were refusing to sign a shitty deal:</p>
<p>check out <a href="http://www6.cop15.meta-fusion.com/kongresse/cop15/templ/play.php?id_kongressmain=1&#038;theme=unfccc&#038;id_kongresssession=2755" rel="nofollow">http://www6.cop15.meta-fusion.com/kongresse/cop15/templ/play.php?id_kongressmain=1&#038;theme=unfccc&#038;id_kongresssession=2755</a></p>
<p>(be sure to click english!)</p>
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		<title>By: The Third Bit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copenhagen Coverage</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Third Bit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copenhagen Coverage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 03:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] rare upbeat analysis of what happened in Copenhagen.  Take it with a large grain of salt, but I agree with the author&#8217;s point that the US Senate [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rare upbeat analysis of what happened in Copenhagen.  Take it with a large grain of salt, but I agree with the author&#8217;s point that the US Senate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Stewart</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Stewart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i don&#039;t think anyone is saying they like the non-legally binding part of this, that is definitely a problem.  but given the procedural break-downs and lack of having something ready to agree on before this conference, i&#039;m not sure what else could have been done.

andrew light is suggesting that perhaps the procedural process of these negotiations is too arcane to do the right thing, and face-to-face negotiations might be more effective.  it&#039;s difficult to say, a lot of people who look at international law feel that the UN and it&#039;s procedures are getting too corrupt and/or ineffective, that nothing ever seems to happen at these events--it&#039;s more than just climate change summits.  so maybe mr. light is on to something, or perhaps it will be just as corrupt as this was.  his article is here:  http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/showdown_copenhagen.html

also an interesting take on how china behaved during this thing.  between china&#039;s kabuki theater and our own senators&#039; &quot;china excuse&quot;, do we have a real way of discussion china&#039;s role in this?  is tom freidman doing a good thing to call them out to a race?

thanx sam for the observations, i&#039;ll pass this on!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think anyone is saying they like the non-legally binding part of this, that is definitely a problem.  but given the procedural break-downs and lack of having something ready to agree on before this conference, i&#8217;m not sure what else could have been done.</p>
<p>andrew light is suggesting that perhaps the procedural process of these negotiations is too arcane to do the right thing, and face-to-face negotiations might be more effective.  it&#8217;s difficult to say, a lot of people who look at international law feel that the UN and it&#8217;s procedures are getting too corrupt and/or ineffective, that nothing ever seems to happen at these events&#8211;it&#8217;s more than just climate change summits.  so maybe mr. light is on to something, or perhaps it will be just as corrupt as this was.  his article is here:  <a href="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/showdown_copenhagen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/showdown_copenhagen.html</a></p>
<p>also an interesting take on how china behaved during this thing.  between china&#8217;s kabuki theater and our own senators&#8217; &#8220;china excuse&#8221;, do we have a real way of discussion china&#8217;s role in this?  is tom freidman doing a good thing to call them out to a race?</p>
<p>thanx sam for the observations, i&#8217;ll pass this on!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Klein</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84787</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Klein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I too sat through it the whole night. In fact, I sat through it the full two years between Bali and Copenhagen, and I come to very different conclusions than you do. Your comments strike me as rather biased (&quot;Unfortunately, ... the handful of opposing nations could not be convinced to support the adoption of the Accord as a decision of the COP15&quot;). I think the jury is still out as to whether or not the adoption of the Copenhagen Accord would have been preferable to continuing the negotiations based on the texts that had been prepared by Parties under the two ad-hoc working groups.

In my view the adoption of the Copenhagen Accord would have set a dangerous precedent of arranging climate deals outside the UNFCCC, raising serious questions about the legitimacy of those deals. Moreover, none of it would be legally binding, and adaptation would have been marginalised (yes, there were promises of money, but there were also allegations of bribe).

Now of course, if you think that there&#039;s no need for a legally binding deal, that adaptation and compensation for loss of oil revenues can be equated, that it is sufficient to agree on targets without specifying a path towards meeting them, and that introducing a new entity to operate the Convention&#039;s financial mechanism without discussing any legal details (remember the Adaptation Fund?) is a promising way of addressing climate change, then your suggestion that Obama did the right thing by undermining the UNFCCC process may hold.

But may I suggest that a large part of the world has valid reasons to disagree?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too sat through it the whole night. In fact, I sat through it the full two years between Bali and Copenhagen, and I come to very different conclusions than you do. Your comments strike me as rather biased (&#8220;Unfortunately, &#8230; the handful of opposing nations could not be convinced to support the adoption of the Accord as a decision of the COP15&#8243;). I think the jury is still out as to whether or not the adoption of the Copenhagen Accord would have been preferable to continuing the negotiations based on the texts that had been prepared by Parties under the two ad-hoc working groups.</p>
<p>In my view the adoption of the Copenhagen Accord would have set a dangerous precedent of arranging climate deals outside the UNFCCC, raising serious questions about the legitimacy of those deals. Moreover, none of it would be legally binding, and adaptation would have been marginalised (yes, there were promises of money, but there were also allegations of bribe).</p>
<p>Now of course, if you think that there&#8217;s no need for a legally binding deal, that adaptation and compensation for loss of oil revenues can be equated, that it is sufficient to agree on targets without specifying a path towards meeting them, and that introducing a new entity to operate the Convention&#8217;s financial mechanism without discussing any legal details (remember the Adaptation Fund?) is a promising way of addressing climate change, then your suggestion that Obama did the right thing by undermining the UNFCCC process may hold.</p>
<p>But may I suggest that a large part of the world has valid reasons to disagree?</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the analysis. I think part of reason some people have a problem accepting that this, although not enough, was the best we could do, was a certain unconscious tendency to assume international politics involves the US just doing whatever it wants and everyone follows along.

Sometimes, international politics involves leaders with their own interests trying to game a conference. Climate denialist exist beyond the boardrooms of Exxon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the analysis. I think part of reason some people have a problem accepting that this, although not enough, was the best we could do, was a certain unconscious tendency to assume international politics involves the US just doing whatever it wants and everyone follows along.</p>
<p>Sometimes, international politics involves leaders with their own interests trying to game a conference. Climate denialist exist beyond the boardrooms of Exxon.</p>
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		<title>By: thoughtbasket</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/21/5-fallacies-in-the-coverage-of-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-84769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thoughtbasket]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=15917#comment-84769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Holy commitment! Thanks for staying up and watching and giving us a rundown. I know that you found it gripping, but I can&#039;t imagine sitting through all of that. I&#039;m also glad to hear that you came away from the experience more positive than most commentators. Let&#039;s keep pushing for even better agreements.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy commitment! Thanks for staying up and watching and giving us a rundown. I know that you found it gripping, but I can&#8217;t imagine sitting through all of that. I&#8217;m also glad to hear that you came away from the experience more positive than most commentators. Let&#8217;s keep pushing for even better agreements.</p>
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