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	<title>Comments on: What the Health Care Debate has to do with Climate Change</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-83119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-83119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are wrong in your underlying premise that climate change legislation will be received more readily by the conservatives or Republicans, than your health care legislation.  The conservatives will not accept any legislation on climate change policy as set forth currently in the Kyoto Treaty.  Any treaty that removes all future finacial responsibility of climate change impact from devolping economies in the Asian and African countries; any policy that requires US taxpayers to support structures of competitve development and societal restructuring outside of the US, and subverts individual and key states rights&#039; issues of consumption here in the US, to a UN or umbrella organization will be categorically opposed.  From my perspective, conservatives, regardless of political leanings, are quite well informed about the healthcare bills and the climate change bill. There is great momentum to halt the movement of climate change legislation, and this momentum is peering closely at the wording of the health care bills for tie-ins to climate change legislation.

Some of the concerns I have about the House healthcare bill (I haven&#039;t had a chance to read the Senate bill yet, but have read some comparison pieces from the left and the right) include: Take for instance the section that &quot;freezes&quot; all medical subsidies to the handicap, until further investigation into treatment strategies can be determined; the section that includes ownership of a gun as an unhealthy habit, and requires that corporations that opt for gov&#039;t care help their employees understand that they have to abide by the rules, or the company pays additional surcharges for these employees who maintain their 2nd amendment right; the section that allows the gov&#039;t to examine our bank accounts and determine if we should pay more depending on our assets, not our income; the section that requires all persons to get health coverage, or pay fines with the eventual threat of jail; the section that requires all foreign companies to pay into our health care system if they employ Americans overseas; the section that requires all Americans to pay into our health care system even if they don&#039;t reside in the US, and can&#039;t use the system; the section that allows the UN to establish punitive consequences for domestic violence in America, subverting US citizens&#039; state and federal rights to a fair trial. 
Conservatives can embrace sound health care insurance for all American citizens quite easily, but it must be maintained in the legislative language that individuals have the freedom to choose or not; and the freedom to buy health coverage from any plans offered regardless of state of residency; and that there will be protections for religious objectors; and that those who buy insurance for protection against financial ruin (for this is all health insurance can do, it can not buy a guarantee of future good health)will receive the treatments that are asked for by the patient and recommended by the patient&#039;s personal doctor; and if I were a senior, that no taxes would be placed on perscription medicine, or medical devices.  I also believe there should be supplemental plans offered to expand coverage for those who have the ability and wish to invest, without punitive consequences.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are wrong in your underlying premise that climate change legislation will be received more readily by the conservatives or Republicans, than your health care legislation.  The conservatives will not accept any legislation on climate change policy as set forth currently in the Kyoto Treaty.  Any treaty that removes all future finacial responsibility of climate change impact from devolping economies in the Asian and African countries; any policy that requires US taxpayers to support structures of competitve development and societal restructuring outside of the US, and subverts individual and key states rights&#8217; issues of consumption here in the US, to a UN or umbrella organization will be categorically opposed.  From my perspective, conservatives, regardless of political leanings, are quite well informed about the healthcare bills and the climate change bill. There is great momentum to halt the movement of climate change legislation, and this momentum is peering closely at the wording of the health care bills for tie-ins to climate change legislation.</p>
<p>Some of the concerns I have about the House healthcare bill (I haven&#8217;t had a chance to read the Senate bill yet, but have read some comparison pieces from the left and the right) include: Take for instance the section that &#8220;freezes&#8221; all medical subsidies to the handicap, until further investigation into treatment strategies can be determined; the section that includes ownership of a gun as an unhealthy habit, and requires that corporations that opt for gov&#8217;t care help their employees understand that they have to abide by the rules, or the company pays additional surcharges for these employees who maintain their 2nd amendment right; the section that allows the gov&#8217;t to examine our bank accounts and determine if we should pay more depending on our assets, not our income; the section that requires all persons to get health coverage, or pay fines with the eventual threat of jail; the section that requires all foreign companies to pay into our health care system if they employ Americans overseas; the section that requires all Americans to pay into our health care system even if they don&#8217;t reside in the US, and can&#8217;t use the system; the section that allows the UN to establish punitive consequences for domestic violence in America, subverting US citizens&#8217; state and federal rights to a fair trial.<br />
Conservatives can embrace sound health care insurance for all American citizens quite easily, but it must be maintained in the legislative language that individuals have the freedom to choose or not; and the freedom to buy health coverage from any plans offered regardless of state of residency; and that there will be protections for religious objectors; and that those who buy insurance for protection against financial ruin (for this is all health insurance can do, it can not buy a guarantee of future good health)will receive the treatments that are asked for by the patient and recommended by the patient&#8217;s personal doctor; and if I were a senior, that no taxes would be placed on perscription medicine, or medical devices.  I also believe there should be supplemental plans offered to expand coverage for those who have the ability and wish to invest, without punitive consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: EarthlingAngst</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EarthlingAngst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My sentiments exactly. I&#039;m terrified that if we fail on health care then the entire Obama change agenda, including climate, will fall apart. We need to win this fight to keeping up the momentum for a progressive agenda or the entrenched interests and conservatives will have won (by hook and by crook) even though they lost the election. And we won&#039;t have a prayer of stopping global warming and climate disasters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My sentiments exactly. I&#8217;m terrified that if we fail on health care then the entire Obama change agenda, including climate, will fall apart. We need to win this fight to keeping up the momentum for a progressive agenda or the entrenched interests and conservatives will have won (by hook and by crook) even though they lost the election. And we won&#8217;t have a prayer of stopping global warming and climate disasters.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt  Dernoga</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt  Dernoga]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right that healthcare could derail climate change legislation, and we should support health care succeeding, but I disagree on a few points.  

Health care might be higher on the list of people&#039;s concerns because they know more about it and it&#039;s more immediate to them, but clean energy/green jobs/energy independence polls just about better than everything else out there, including health care(even before the health care ruckus).  It doesn&#039;t divide the left and the right as sharply and doesn&#039;t cause a rebellion.  Additionally, climate is easier in this era because it doesn&#039;t carry with it the same deficit spending argument that conservatives can use on health care reform.  

 We were able to pass a climate bill out of the House without this kind of madness, and if the Obama Administration and Congress had been smart, they would&#039;ve used that momentum and taken it to the Senate immediately.  Finished climate before healthcare.  Now, there&#039;s the very scary possibility health care could derail the rest of the progressive agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right that healthcare could derail climate change legislation, and we should support health care succeeding, but I disagree on a few points.  </p>
<p>Health care might be higher on the list of people&#8217;s concerns because they know more about it and it&#8217;s more immediate to them, but clean energy/green jobs/energy independence polls just about better than everything else out there, including health care(even before the health care ruckus).  It doesn&#8217;t divide the left and the right as sharply and doesn&#8217;t cause a rebellion.  Additionally, climate is easier in this era because it doesn&#8217;t carry with it the same deficit spending argument that conservatives can use on health care reform.  </p>
<p> We were able to pass a climate bill out of the House without this kind of madness, and if the Obama Administration and Congress had been smart, they would&#8217;ve used that momentum and taken it to the Senate immediately.  Finished climate before healthcare.  Now, there&#8217;s the very scary possibility health care could derail the rest of the progressive agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R Margolis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Health care also needs to be resolved as doing nothing will mean health care costs will simply escalate and leave no resources for anything else (climate or otherwise).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health care also needs to be resolved as doing nothing will mean health care costs will simply escalate and leave no resources for anything else (climate or otherwise).</p>
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		<title>By: ad</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very good points, well put.
One more thing I would add: If climate change is not addressed, expect our health care costs to spiral out of control even more... between the simple fact that we will be burning air-polluting fossil fuels (one of the leading causes of preventable death) and the fact that we will be faced with an onslaught of more virulent disease (malaria, cholera, dengue, to name a few) as well as disaster-related casualties, we are in for BIG trouble. They say healthcare is too expensive. Just wait till climate change bites...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good points, well put.<br />
One more thing I would add: If climate change is not addressed, expect our health care costs to spiral out of control even more&#8230; between the simple fact that we will be burning air-polluting fossil fuels (one of the leading causes of preventable death) and the fact that we will be faced with an onslaught of more virulent disease (malaria, cholera, dengue, to name a few) as well as disaster-related casualties, we are in for BIG trouble. They say healthcare is too expensive. Just wait till climate change bites&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jcwinnie</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jcwinnie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If our Congress critters are incapable of addressing human-caused degradation of the Earth&#039;s atmosphere that threatens life on the planet as we know it, which includes their sorry butts, then how could we expect them to care about the uninsured when they have health care coverage?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If our Congress critters are incapable of addressing human-caused degradation of the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere that threatens life on the planet as we know it, which includes their sorry butts, then how could we expect them to care about the uninsured when they have health care coverage?</p>
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		<title>By: Wonk Room &#187; The WonkLine: August 18, 2009</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wonk Room &#187; The WonkLine: August 18, 2009]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Hatch asks what the health care debate has to do with climate change. &#8220;If they succeed in shutting down health care momentum, and if half the country is pissed at [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hatch asks what the health care debate has to do with climate change. &#8220;If they succeed in shutting down health care momentum, and if half the country is pissed at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/08/17/what-the-health-care-debate-has-to-do-with-climate-change/#comment-80554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=12505#comment-80554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking the same thing recently. With the economic crisis as well. If the stimulus isn&#039;t big enough and TARP ends up just being a giveaway to Wall Street how will we ever convince folks that it just wansn&#039;t progressive ENOUGH? To the regular republican desensitized person it was FDR style action. Progressives of all creeds need to rally around each issue because as you said, they are all inexorably linked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking the same thing recently. With the economic crisis as well. If the stimulus isn&#8217;t big enough and TARP ends up just being a giveaway to Wall Street how will we ever convince folks that it just wansn&#8217;t progressive ENOUGH? To the regular republican desensitized person it was FDR style action. Progressives of all creeds need to rally around each issue because as you said, they are all inexorably linked.</p>
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