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	<title>Comments on: Waxman-Markey Passes the House 219-212!</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Levi&#039;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What the PA-12 Special Election Says About Cap and Trade</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-90284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Levi&#039;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What the PA-12 Special Election Says About Cap and Trade]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 14:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-90284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the first time around might be persuaded to vote yes if their votes mattered. (Dennis Kucinich, who waited until the bill had 218 votes before voting no, is an obvious candidate.) The Senate bill is also [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the first time around might be persuaded to vote yes if their votes mattered. (Dennis Kucinich, who waited until the bill had 218 votes before voting no, is an obvious candidate.) The Senate bill is also [...]</p>
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		<title>By: popcorn</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[popcorn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aw fuck it, politicians ain&#039;t gonna solve the root causes of climate catastrophe anyway]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw fuck it, politicians ain&#8217;t gonna solve the root causes of climate catastrophe anyway</p>
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		<title>By: Matt  Dernoga</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt  Dernoga]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a glass half-full if I&#039;ve ever seen one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a glass half-full if I&#8217;ve ever seen one.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lewis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obama&#039;s whole domestic and international approach to climate rests on the fallacy that it will prove to be acceptable to increase the present concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere rather than decrease it.  The reason so much climate change is happening so quickly, beyond all expectations, is because everyone was wrong thinking there was such a thing as a &quot;safe&quot; level of climate change, like 2 degrees, or that that there was some level of greenhouse gas, like 450 ppm, beyond which lay disaster.  We are already committed to disaster and have been for some time.  As Hansen has written, he was stunned to find himself being the one to have to say it, but the target of the Copenhagen process, if successful beyond everyone&#039;s wildest dreams, is a &quot;recipe for global disaster&quot;.  

Waxman-Markey is such a big step beyond the denial of the Bush years it seems like some kind of milestone, but to celebrate it seems like a tragic joke.

Consider the debate in England before WWII.  When it dawned on people Hitler was rearming Germany, there were those who thought it would not mean world war.  People took different positions, some of which were very popular, and which turned out to be very wrong.  The Obama approach is to declare that it will be adequate, in this analogy, to ramp up English defences in the next 50 years to a level his own military advisers know will not be enough even then to stop Hitler, and he&#039;s selling it as the most that is politically possible to do.  So what?  What difference is this going to make?  We are like Alice in Wonderland, we&#039;ve taken a drink from the bottle marked Drink Me, and the shit is just starting to hit the fan.  

At some point it will be seen that it is necessary to seek a solution to the climate problem, and civilization will start to do what is required.  Waxman-Markey seems like the people who were training to defend England with sticks, because in the insanity of those times as the world drifted into world war, it seemed to be better than nothing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s whole domestic and international approach to climate rests on the fallacy that it will prove to be acceptable to increase the present concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere rather than decrease it.  The reason so much climate change is happening so quickly, beyond all expectations, is because everyone was wrong thinking there was such a thing as a &#8220;safe&#8221; level of climate change, like 2 degrees, or that that there was some level of greenhouse gas, like 450 ppm, beyond which lay disaster.  We are already committed to disaster and have been for some time.  As Hansen has written, he was stunned to find himself being the one to have to say it, but the target of the Copenhagen process, if successful beyond everyone&#8217;s wildest dreams, is a &#8220;recipe for global disaster&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Waxman-Markey is such a big step beyond the denial of the Bush years it seems like some kind of milestone, but to celebrate it seems like a tragic joke.</p>
<p>Consider the debate in England before WWII.  When it dawned on people Hitler was rearming Germany, there were those who thought it would not mean world war.  People took different positions, some of which were very popular, and which turned out to be very wrong.  The Obama approach is to declare that it will be adequate, in this analogy, to ramp up English defences in the next 50 years to a level his own military advisers know will not be enough even then to stop Hitler, and he&#8217;s selling it as the most that is politically possible to do.  So what?  What difference is this going to make?  We are like Alice in Wonderland, we&#8217;ve taken a drink from the bottle marked Drink Me, and the shit is just starting to hit the fan.  </p>
<p>At some point it will be seen that it is necessary to seek a solution to the climate problem, and civilization will start to do what is required.  Waxman-Markey seems like the people who were training to defend England with sticks, because in the insanity of those times as the world drifted into world war, it seemed to be better than nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt  Dernoga</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt  Dernoga]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Anna at the end of the day we are working towards the same end goal, so sorry if that part sounded divisive, but I want to put it more in my perspective of how I feel about FoE.

It&#039;s one thing to stick to principles and offer a strong critique of the bill, I&#039;m okay with that.

However, if any group is trying to kill the legislation I&#039;m working so hard to get passed, as in running ads telling people to call Congress and ask them to vote &quot;no&quot;, then I&#039;m going to feel justified to criticize them for it.  That doesn&#039;t mean they shouldn&#039;t be allowed to do it, and they can push their contrary opinion. I&#039;m not stopping them, but I have an equal right to push back.  

Especially when some of the talking points used are blatantly untrue or &quot;truthy&quot;, which is something I expect the industry groups to do, not the environmental groups.  

So that&#039;s how I feel about friends of the earth running the ad&#039;s they did, which was why I sniped.  The quotations around &quot;friends&quot; was disingenuous though, I know they&#039;re an environmental group that pushes for good things, even if I feel they&#039;re mistaken here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Anna at the end of the day we are working towards the same end goal, so sorry if that part sounded divisive, but I want to put it more in my perspective of how I feel about FoE.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to stick to principles and offer a strong critique of the bill, I&#8217;m okay with that.</p>
<p>However, if any group is trying to kill the legislation I&#8217;m working so hard to get passed, as in running ads telling people to call Congress and ask them to vote &#8220;no&#8221;, then I&#8217;m going to feel justified to criticize them for it.  That doesn&#8217;t mean they shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to do it, and they can push their contrary opinion. I&#8217;m not stopping them, but I have an equal right to push back.  </p>
<p>Especially when some of the talking points used are blatantly untrue or &#8220;truthy&#8221;, which is something I expect the industry groups to do, not the environmental groups.  </p>
<p>So that&#8217;s how I feel about friends of the earth running the ad&#8217;s they did, which was why I sniped.  The quotations around &#8220;friends&#8221; was disingenuous though, I know they&#8217;re an environmental group that pushes for good things, even if I feel they&#8217;re mistaken here.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Keenan</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna Keenan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post Matt, except for the one snipe at &#039;&quot;Friends&quot; of the earth&#039;.

That was more than harsh. As an activist, I&#039;m sure that you appreciate the value of diversity in activism and activist approaches. Rebel, change agent, citizen, reformer. All are necessary, and I&#039;m personally glad that FoE has been speaking out and sticking to their principles with a strong critique of the bill.

I&#039;m glad that the vote was so close. Your words on &#039;the super-liberal Kucinich had stated he wanted to make a statement that the bill was woefully inadequate by voting no.&#039; I think that Kucinich did the right thing, personally, and I see FoE as playing the exact same role, but in the public sphere, instead of Congress.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Matt, except for the one snipe at &#8216;&#8221;Friends&#8221; of the earth&#8217;.</p>
<p>That was more than harsh. As an activist, I&#8217;m sure that you appreciate the value of diversity in activism and activist approaches. Rebel, change agent, citizen, reformer. All are necessary, and I&#8217;m personally glad that FoE has been speaking out and sticking to their principles with a strong critique of the bill.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that the vote was so close. Your words on &#8216;the super-liberal Kucinich had stated he wanted to make a statement that the bill was woefully inadequate by voting no.&#8217; I think that Kucinich did the right thing, personally, and I see FoE as playing the exact same role, but in the public sphere, instead of Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: Alyssa</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/06/26/waxman-markey-passes-the-house-219-212/#comment-79646</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alyssa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=11732#comment-79646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fantastic post! Here&#039;s a possible senate breakdown to get you started: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ribbxyTf-3tbTUXR0h2QDpA
I watched the whole thing on C-SPAN (sans having to take a break during Boehner&#039;s mini filibuster). We have a lot of educating to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic post! Here&#8217;s a possible senate breakdown to get you started: <a href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ribbxyTf-3tbTUXR0h2QDpA" rel="nofollow">http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ribbxyTf-3tbTUXR0h2QDpA</a><br />
I watched the whole thing on C-SPAN (sans having to take a break during Boehner&#8217;s mini filibuster). We have a lot of educating to do.</p>
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