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	<title>Comments on: Hansen hopes lawmakers&#8217; cap-and-trade approach to climate will fail</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: Why Hansen is Right: Cap-and-trade will Make the Climate Problem Worse, Not Better &#171; Steve Kirsch&#39;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-82786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Why Hansen is Right: Cap-and-trade will Make the Climate Problem Worse, Not Better &#171; Steve Kirsch&#39;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-82786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] May 4, 2009, NASA’s leading climate scientist, James Hansen, said he hoped that the Waxman-Markey bill fails because the bill would lock in dangerous emissions for decades. The Boxer-Kerry bill in the Senate [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 4, 2009, NASA’s leading climate scientist, James Hansen, said he hoped that the Waxman-Markey bill fails because the bill would lock in dangerous emissions for decades. The Boxer-Kerry bill in the Senate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: This is a new post &#171; Steve Kirsch&#39;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-82785</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[This is a new post &#171; Steve Kirsch&#39;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-82785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] May 4, 2009, NASA’s leading climate scientist, James Hansen, said he hoped that the Waxman-Markey bill fails because the bill would lock in dangerous emissions for decades. The Boxer-Kerry bill in the Senate [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May 4, 2009, NASA’s leading climate scientist, James Hansen, said he hoped that the Waxman-Markey bill fails because the bill would lock in dangerous emissions for decades. The Boxer-Kerry bill in the Senate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank goodness someone is talking sense in Washington! Too bad it&#039;s not our lawmakers. I agree wholeheartedly with Hansen on this issue. It&#039;s time we implemented a simple carbon tax, instead of allowing loopholes so companies can trade pollution credits. How does that help our environment, anyway? It just spreads more muck and misery around, it doesn&#039;t encourage companies to clean up their act. Quite the opposite. Instead it encourages a system where companies can avoid paying penalties for polluting. 

We need to address environmental concerns, of course, and that&#039;s taking into consideration the fact that man&#039;s Herculean efforts to reduce climate change, even if strictly enforced, will, at best, only make a tiny dent in air quality, while at the same time taking a huge chunk out of our nation&#039;s economy. So is it worth it? I can sympathize with people who say no.

The fact is that any action we take can only help, but we must be careful to not completely dismantle our energy infrastructure, putting millions out of work, until we have a better infrastructure in place with the jobs to support it. In the meantime we should be setting standards and enforcing them, not letting people trade places to avoid penalties.

Job losses and economic impacts aside though, the trade portion of cap-and-trade is counterproductive, and it won&#039;t work here any better than it&#039;s worked in Europe, where air quality and emissions are worse than here in America.

It&#039;s time we took the trade out of cap and trade. Period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank goodness someone is talking sense in Washington! Too bad it&#8217;s not our lawmakers. I agree wholeheartedly with Hansen on this issue. It&#8217;s time we implemented a simple carbon tax, instead of allowing loopholes so companies can trade pollution credits. How does that help our environment, anyway? It just spreads more muck and misery around, it doesn&#8217;t encourage companies to clean up their act. Quite the opposite. Instead it encourages a system where companies can avoid paying penalties for polluting. </p>
<p>We need to address environmental concerns, of course, and that&#8217;s taking into consideration the fact that man&#8217;s Herculean efforts to reduce climate change, even if strictly enforced, will, at best, only make a tiny dent in air quality, while at the same time taking a huge chunk out of our nation&#8217;s economy. So is it worth it? I can sympathize with people who say no.</p>
<p>The fact is that any action we take can only help, but we must be careful to not completely dismantle our energy infrastructure, putting millions out of work, until we have a better infrastructure in place with the jobs to support it. In the meantime we should be setting standards and enforcing them, not letting people trade places to avoid penalties.</p>
<p>Job losses and economic impacts aside though, the trade portion of cap-and-trade is counterproductive, and it won&#8217;t work here any better than it&#8217;s worked in Europe, where air quality and emissions are worse than here in America.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time we took the trade out of cap and trade. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Maiorana</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78079</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Maiorana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to clarify, I&#039;m behind Hansen 100% on the scientific realities we face and the massive problems with Waxman-Markey. The bill isn&#039;t anywhere near where we need to be. He looses me, however, when he starts pushing for a carbon-tax. At this point, I think we need a combination of a cap-and-auction approach, along with a strong RES, CAFE standard, removal of oil subsidies, and executive action through the EPA endangerment finding. I would love to see a tax as well, but republicans would have a field day if that was seriously pushed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, I&#8217;m behind Hansen 100% on the scientific realities we face and the massive problems with Waxman-Markey. The bill isn&#8217;t anywhere near where we need to be. He looses me, however, when he starts pushing for a carbon-tax. At this point, I think we need a combination of a cap-and-auction approach, along with a strong RES, CAFE standard, removal of oil subsidies, and executive action through the EPA endangerment finding. I would love to see a tax as well, but republicans would have a field day if that was seriously pushed.</p>
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		<title>By: Cool Green Science: The Conservation Blog of The Nature Conservancy &#187; Cool Green Morning: Wednesday, May 6</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cool Green Science: The Conservation Blog of The Nature Conservancy &#187; Cool Green Morning: Wednesday, May 6]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 13:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] NASA&#8217;s James Hansen says he hopes cap-and-trade initiatives like the Waxman-Markey bill fail and make way for a simple carbon tax. (Hat tip: Green Skeptic&#8230;who is, appropriately, skeptical of Hansen&#8217;s position.) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NASA&#8217;s James Hansen says he hopes cap-and-trade initiatives like the Waxman-Markey bill fail and make way for a simple carbon tax. (Hat tip: Green Skeptic&#8230;who is, appropriately, skeptical of Hansen&#8217;s position.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Engelfried</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78065</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Engelfried]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 22:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I must admit that I am growing more and more wary of cap-and-trade the more I learn about it.  Perhaps an optimally-designed cap-and-trade system could eliminate the loopholes that will allow corporations to make a profit through carbon trading.  But our chances of passing a comprehensive cap-and-trade policy without it being considerably watered down are virtually zero - the &quot;optimal plan&quot; is not what we&#039;re going to get.  In Oregon, despite large Democratic majorities in both houses of the legislature, a governor committed to climate issues, and our reputation as a leader in all things green, we just witnessed a state-level cap-and-trade program go down in flames - illustrating the political difficulty of passing such a policy in the current political climate.

Yet a carbon tax is even more certain to fail.  For environmentalists to put all (or even many) of their eggs in the carbon tax basket would be, I believe, nothing short of disastrous.  Not because a tax on carbon is a bad idea, but because there is virtually no realistic chance of such a proposal making it through Congress.  We can talk about escalating our movement, new ways of getting our message across, all of that - but a carbon tax is just not going to fly anytime soon.

Instead of these proposals that use the market, in one way or another, to cut emissions, what about simply pushing for a moratorium on the most destructive fossil fuel projects, along with massive clean energy and energy efficiency programs?  I believe a climate package which includes a moratorium on new coal plants and tar sands development, a plan to phase out the current fleet of coal plants over a couple decades, ambitious new fuel economy standards, and huge investments in renewable energy, efficiency, and public transportation is our best hope at this point.  The public understands that coal plants are bad and renewable energy is good much more readily than they understand how a carbon tax could be implemented without imposing a burden on middle-class folks (I think it could be done, but that&#039;s not the point - most people still don&#039;t see it that way).  Plus, projects like these can be more easily linked to other national priorities, such as reducing oil dependence and creating jobs in the green energy sector.

If cap-and-trade is doomed to fail when it comes to actually reducing emissions, and a carbon tax is political suicide (which I believe it is), then our best hope may be a more old-fashioned &quot;ban the bad stuff and encourage good behavior&quot; approach.  Thoughts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit that I am growing more and more wary of cap-and-trade the more I learn about it.  Perhaps an optimally-designed cap-and-trade system could eliminate the loopholes that will allow corporations to make a profit through carbon trading.  But our chances of passing a comprehensive cap-and-trade policy without it being considerably watered down are virtually zero &#8211; the &#8220;optimal plan&#8221; is not what we&#8217;re going to get.  In Oregon, despite large Democratic majorities in both houses of the legislature, a governor committed to climate issues, and our reputation as a leader in all things green, we just witnessed a state-level cap-and-trade program go down in flames &#8211; illustrating the political difficulty of passing such a policy in the current political climate.</p>
<p>Yet a carbon tax is even more certain to fail.  For environmentalists to put all (or even many) of their eggs in the carbon tax basket would be, I believe, nothing short of disastrous.  Not because a tax on carbon is a bad idea, but because there is virtually no realistic chance of such a proposal making it through Congress.  We can talk about escalating our movement, new ways of getting our message across, all of that &#8211; but a carbon tax is just not going to fly anytime soon.</p>
<p>Instead of these proposals that use the market, in one way or another, to cut emissions, what about simply pushing for a moratorium on the most destructive fossil fuel projects, along with massive clean energy and energy efficiency programs?  I believe a climate package which includes a moratorium on new coal plants and tar sands development, a plan to phase out the current fleet of coal plants over a couple decades, ambitious new fuel economy standards, and huge investments in renewable energy, efficiency, and public transportation is our best hope at this point.  The public understands that coal plants are bad and renewable energy is good much more readily than they understand how a carbon tax could be implemented without imposing a burden on middle-class folks (I think it could be done, but that&#8217;s not the point &#8211; most people still don&#8217;t see it that way).  Plus, projects like these can be more easily linked to other national priorities, such as reducing oil dependence and creating jobs in the green energy sector.</p>
<p>If cap-and-trade is doomed to fail when it comes to actually reducing emissions, and a carbon tax is political suicide (which I believe it is), then our best hope may be a more old-fashioned &#8220;ban the bad stuff and encourage good behavior&#8221; approach.  Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Memo to James Hansen: Your opposition to Waxman-Markey is ill-conceived and unhelpful. There isn’t going to be a carbon tax nor should there be. Get over it and move on. &#124; Climate Vine</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78063</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Memo to James Hansen: Your opposition to Waxman-Markey is ill-conceived and unhelpful. There isn’t going to be a carbon tax nor should there be. Get over it and move on. &#124; Climate Vine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 22:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Climate Wire (subs. req&#8217;d) reports today: NASA&#8217;s leading climate scientist says he hopes that climate legislation proposed by Democratic Reps. Henry Waxman (CA) and Edward Markey (MA) to introduce carbon emissions trading to the United States fails. He says lawmakers should abandon cap-and-trade initiatives altogether and implement a simple carbon tax instead&#8230;. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Climate Wire (subs. req&#8217;d) reports today: NASA&#8217;s leading climate scientist says he hopes that climate legislation proposed by Democratic Reps. Henry Waxman (CA) and Edward Markey (MA) to introduce carbon emissions trading to the United States fails. He says lawmakers should abandon cap-and-trade initiatives altogether and implement a simple carbon tax instead&#8230;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Leonard</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Leonard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 20:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But we also face some very real climate realities. How far are we willing to go in accepting political compromises, and as Romm put it - following &quot;the Golden Rule&quot; (those have have the gold write the rules) before we simply say enough is enough?

Carbon trading has a disastrous track record and has served to further delay emissions reductions while giving the worst polluters windfall profits. The ACES bill gets worse and worse day by day as industry interests carve out more giveaways, loopholes, and caveats to drift the bill further and further away from science-based climate targets.

While I don&#039;t agree with everything Hansen says - I do applaud him for sticking to the realities of science, and not accepting the compromises of politics. Political realities are only real if we allow them to be. And there is simply no argument - that we need a massive paradigm shift in our political thinking and structures if we are to create a sustainable and just world. That&#039;s the reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But we also face some very real climate realities. How far are we willing to go in accepting political compromises, and as Romm put it &#8211; following &#8220;the Golden Rule&#8221; (those have have the gold write the rules) before we simply say enough is enough?</p>
<p>Carbon trading has a disastrous track record and has served to further delay emissions reductions while giving the worst polluters windfall profits. The ACES bill gets worse and worse day by day as industry interests carve out more giveaways, loopholes, and caveats to drift the bill further and further away from science-based climate targets.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t agree with everything Hansen says &#8211; I do applaud him for sticking to the realities of science, and not accepting the compromises of politics. Political realities are only real if we allow them to be. And there is simply no argument &#8211; that we need a massive paradigm shift in our political thinking and structures if we are to create a sustainable and just world. That&#8217;s the reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Maiorana</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Maiorana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See the link below for an in-depth rebuttal of this position by Joseph Romm. Interesting debate. I tend to fall on Romm&#039;s side of the argument - we currently face some very real political realities. I&#039;m all for making bold statements and pushing the envelope, but there has to be a meaningful strategy behind it. I don&#039;t see the benefits of calling for a carbon tax given what&#039;s currently happening in Congress.

http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/05/james-hansen-waxman-markey-carbon-tax-cap-and-trade/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See the link below for an in-depth rebuttal of this position by Joseph Romm. Interesting debate. I tend to fall on Romm&#8217;s side of the argument &#8211; we currently face some very real political realities. I&#8217;m all for making bold statements and pushing the envelope, but there has to be a meaningful strategy behind it. I don&#8217;t see the benefits of calling for a carbon tax given what&#8217;s currently happening in Congress.</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/05/james-hansen-waxman-markey-carbon-tax-cap-and-trade/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/05/james-hansen-waxman-markey-carbon-tax-cap-and-trade/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Agree to Disagree: Cap-and-Trade vs. Carbon Tax? &#124; EcoSilly</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/05/04/hansen-hopes-lawmakers-cap-and-trade-approach-to-climate-will-fail/#comment-78035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Agree to Disagree: Cap-and-Trade vs. Carbon Tax? &#124; EcoSilly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/?p=10793#comment-78035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Hansen says lawmakers should abandon cap-and-trade initiatives altogether and implement a simple carbon tax instead, according to Nathanial Gronewold, a reporter at Environment &amp; Energy Publishing. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hansen says lawmakers should abandon cap-and-trade initiatives altogether and implement a simple carbon tax instead, according to Nathanial Gronewold, a reporter at Environment &amp; Energy Publishing. [...]</p>
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