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	<title>Comments on: State of the Planet Puts Nuclear on the Table</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Summer Rayne Oakes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; State of the Planet puts nuclear on the table</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-66747</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer Rayne Oakes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; State of the Planet puts nuclear on the table</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-66747</guid>
		<description>[...] of the Planet puts nuclear on the table  I posted this on  Treehugger    and  It&#8217;s Getting Hot in Here    with some great conversation on both blogs. Click to read on the respective sites and chime in if [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the Planet puts nuclear on the table  I posted this on  Treehugger    and  It&#8217;s Getting Hot in Here    with some great conversation on both blogs. Click to read on the respective sites and chime in if [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sefrsdfas</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-63310</link>
		<dc:creator>sefrsdfas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-63310</guid>
		<description>bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Stuart</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-62046</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-62046</guid>
		<description>I have commented here before, but the author of this site already seems to have his mind made up that there is no room for nuclear power.

But I will comment yet again in hopes that the readers will at least get a less anti-nuclear spin on commercial nuclear power.

Storage Costs

High level used nuclear fuel is already being stored.  It has been for decades, and it's not harming anyone.  That's a good thing.  Where's the toxic waste created by the manufacture of solar cells being stored?  How about the mercury emissions from coal power?

If waste storage was so cost prohibitive, then nuclear would not even be on the table.  Operational costs of nuclear are among the lowest of any baseload source, including coal and hydro.  In fact, nuclear is the ONLY large scale electrical generator that is REQUIRED to store all of it's waste (which isn't really waste, because it can be recycled).  If coal power was held to the same standard then there would be no way it could be cost competitive with nuclear.  Nuclear would be BY FAR the most cost effective baseload energy source.

Insurance Costs

So... How much has Price-Anderson cost the US tax payer?  Nothing.  The utilities pay 100% of the premiums, and it has never been utilized - not even after Three Mile Island. You're hinging your argument on what it COULD cost.  Similar arguments could be hinged on the Hoover Dam breaking.  This insurance was modeled on the same type of insurance that protects makers of child vaccinations.  No one has unlimited liability.

Subsidies

I'd question the source of your information.  I'm guessing that you're lumping all nuclear technologies together, and when you add Department of Defense dollars into the equation, you can make it look like a lot of subsidies are being given to the "nuclear industry."  In fact, commercial nuclear power (which is what we're talking about here) has received very little in the form of subsidy in the past 30 years.

The industry proposals for funding assistance for the first few new nuclear plants are similar to that provided for other major capital intensive projects that will provide significant benefit to the nation.  Recently, clean coal projects have applied for and been granted financial assistance in the form of loan guarantees; the Alaska pipeline received a loan guarantee for 80% of project cost, some $18 billion; wind power generators receive a production tax credit of $18/MWh.  It is standard practice for the federal governments to assist major transportation projects that will improve national infrastructure and benefit the average American.  The industry proposals call for funding assistance for the first set of new plants, after which time, there would be no further need for financial assistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have commented here before, but the author of this site already seems to have his mind made up that there is no room for nuclear power.</p>
<p>But I will comment yet again in hopes that the readers will at least get a less anti-nuclear spin on commercial nuclear power.</p>
<p>Storage Costs</p>
<p>High level used nuclear fuel is already being stored.  It has been for decades, and it&#8217;s not harming anyone.  That&#8217;s a good thing.  Where&#8217;s the toxic waste created by the manufacture of solar cells being stored?  How about the mercury emissions from coal power?</p>
<p>If waste storage was so cost prohibitive, then nuclear would not even be on the table.  Operational costs of nuclear are among the lowest of any baseload source, including coal and hydro.  In fact, nuclear is the ONLY large scale electrical generator that is REQUIRED to store all of it&#8217;s waste (which isn&#8217;t really waste, because it can be recycled).  If coal power was held to the same standard then there would be no way it could be cost competitive with nuclear.  Nuclear would be BY FAR the most cost effective baseload energy source.</p>
<p>Insurance Costs</p>
<p>So&#8230; How much has Price-Anderson cost the US tax payer?  Nothing.  The utilities pay 100% of the premiums, and it has never been utilized - not even after Three Mile Island. You&#8217;re hinging your argument on what it COULD cost.  Similar arguments could be hinged on the Hoover Dam breaking.  This insurance was modeled on the same type of insurance that protects makers of child vaccinations.  No one has unlimited liability.</p>
<p>Subsidies</p>
<p>I&#8217;d question the source of your information.  I&#8217;m guessing that you&#8217;re lumping all nuclear technologies together, and when you add Department of Defense dollars into the equation, you can make it look like a lot of subsidies are being given to the &#8220;nuclear industry.&#8221;  In fact, commercial nuclear power (which is what we&#8217;re talking about here) has received very little in the form of subsidy in the past 30 years.</p>
<p>The industry proposals for funding assistance for the first few new nuclear plants are similar to that provided for other major capital intensive projects that will provide significant benefit to the nation.  Recently, clean coal projects have applied for and been granted financial assistance in the form of loan guarantees; the Alaska pipeline received a loan guarantee for 80% of project cost, some $18 billion; wind power generators receive a production tax credit of $18/MWh.  It is standard practice for the federal governments to assist major transportation projects that will improve national infrastructure and benefit the average American.  The industry proposals call for funding assistance for the first set of new plants, after which time, there would be no further need for financial assistance.</p>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-61996</link>
		<dc:creator>R Margolis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-61996</guid>
		<description>All energy sources have problems.  However let me briefly touch on the three questions:

1) Storage - the volumes of nuclear waste are much smaller than our current fossil fuel technologies (i.e., 100,000 tons of spent fuel from 50 years vs 2 billion tons of coal every year).  In fact, mining technology is now at a point where deep boeholes become feasible (i.e., 5 km depth instead of .8 km of current geological plans).  At such depths very little if any material will find its way back to the biosphere.  As for plutonium, the best way to get rid of it is in a reactor.

2) Insurance - Most large industrial activities have liability limits.  No jumbo jet would fly without the international treaties that protect their liability.  Price Anderson is actually a better deal than just a liability limit and the industry pays the fees.

3) Investment Banks - Like the utilities they are waiting to see if any of the new designs (e.g., some being built in China now) can be brought in on schedule and budget.  So far the experience in Asia (and France) is if you stick with a few designs and a dedicated crew you can build plants on time and on budget (e.g., ABWR in Japan and the Korea Standard Plant in ROK).

I know that the Climate Movement wants an all renewables path, however there do remain issues with these technologies as well (e.g., no economic energy storage to alleviate the intermittency).  Why not use nuclear (and even carbon sequestration) to get society through the transition?  Once the issues with renewables are resolved, the transition source could be phased out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All energy sources have problems.  However let me briefly touch on the three questions:</p>
<p>1) Storage - the volumes of nuclear waste are much smaller than our current fossil fuel technologies (i.e., 100,000 tons of spent fuel from 50 years vs 2 billion tons of coal every year).  In fact, mining technology is now at a point where deep boeholes become feasible (i.e., 5 km depth instead of .8 km of current geological plans).  At such depths very little if any material will find its way back to the biosphere.  As for plutonium, the best way to get rid of it is in a reactor.</p>
<p>2) Insurance - Most large industrial activities have liability limits.  No jumbo jet would fly without the international treaties that protect their liability.  Price Anderson is actually a better deal than just a liability limit and the industry pays the fees.</p>
<p>3) Investment Banks - Like the utilities they are waiting to see if any of the new designs (e.g., some being built in China now) can be brought in on schedule and budget.  So far the experience in Asia (and France) is if you stick with a few designs and a dedicated crew you can build plants on time and on budget (e.g., ABWR in Japan and the Korea Standard Plant in ROK).</p>
<p>I know that the Climate Movement wants an all renewables path, however there do remain issues with these technologies as well (e.g., no economic energy storage to alleviate the intermittency).  Why not use nuclear (and even carbon sequestration) to get society through the transition?  Once the issues with renewables are resolved, the transition source could be phased out.</p>
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		<title>By: G.R.L. Cowan, hydrogen-to-boron convert</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-61988</link>
		<dc:creator>G.R.L. Cowan, hydrogen-to-boron convert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-61988</guid>
		<description>It is ignorant to speak of "putting highly radioactive material in lead-lined basins in our mountains or deep under the ocean in hopes that science will eventually take care of them" because when this is done -- except for the "lead-lined" bit, that's more stupidity -- when this is done, science &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;will have&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; taken care of them.

The reason this is true, the reason environmentalists working for antinuclear organizations quietly but calmly get on board nuclear-powered ships, is that the stuff is highly radioactive only in terms of concentration, not absolute amount.

When it is deeply buried, there is more natural radioactivity above it than there is artificial radioactivity in it. If it were on the bottom of the ocean -- an adequate but not optimal place to put it -- its power to contaminate the ocean, should the containers it is in someday leak, is on a par with the power of the saltshakers in the &lt;em&gt;Titanic&lt;/em&gt; similarly to make the oceans brackish, and undrinkable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is ignorant to speak of &#8220;putting highly radioactive material in lead-lined basins in our mountains or deep under the ocean in hopes that science will eventually take care of them&#8221; because when this is done &#8212; except for the &#8220;lead-lined&#8221; bit, that&#8217;s more stupidity &#8212; when this is done, science <em><strong>will have</strong></em> taken care of them.</p>
<p>The reason this is true, the reason environmentalists working for antinuclear organizations quietly but calmly get on board nuclear-powered ships, is that the stuff is highly radioactive only in terms of concentration, not absolute amount.</p>
<p>When it is deeply buried, there is more natural radioactivity above it than there is artificial radioactivity in it. If it were on the bottom of the ocean &#8212; an adequate but not optimal place to put it &#8212; its power to contaminate the ocean, should the containers it is in someday leak, is on a par with the power of the saltshakers in the <em>Titanic</em> similarly to make the oceans brackish, and undrinkable.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kolodner</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/03/31/state-of-the-planet-puts-nuclear-on-the-table/#comment-61986</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kolodner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4506#comment-61986</guid>
		<description>To point #2 above: the idea that Price Anderson provides insurance is incorrect. The largest public and private insurance companies in the world all write nuclear insurance for John Q. Public...they just make the utilities pay the premium. The reason you don't get nuclear coverage under your homeowners insurance is because you get it for free from the same company via a policy which utilities are forced to buy. If you could get it for your home the companies would have to pay you twice (unlawful)...it is far cheeper and more cost effective to simply tap the utilities, who are the only ones with the ability to minimize the possability for a loss to occur. Further, I would point out that to date they have done an exemplary job, and would be happy to discuss the issue in greater detail if there is interest as I make my living insuring the public against nuclear bodily injury and property damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To point #2 above: the idea that Price Anderson provides insurance is incorrect. The largest public and private insurance companies in the world all write nuclear insurance for John Q. Public&#8230;they just make the utilities pay the premium. The reason you don&#8217;t get nuclear coverage under your homeowners insurance is because you get it for free from the same company via a policy which utilities are forced to buy. If you could get it for your home the companies would have to pay you twice (unlawful)&#8230;it is far cheeper and more cost effective to simply tap the utilities, who are the only ones with the ability to minimize the possability for a loss to occur. Further, I would point out that to date they have done an exemplary job, and would be happy to discuss the issue in greater detail if there is interest as I make my living insuring the public against nuclear bodily injury and property damage.</p>
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