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	<title>Comments on: Meditations on Stuff</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/#comment-60908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R Margolis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Amy - 

Maybe my numbers are wrong, but here goes:

US population is about 300 million
US electric capacity is about 1 TW  (around 1200 St. Lucie sized reactors)

If we use Amory Lovins claim that one can get along fine with 25% of US per capita electric capacity (total becomes 0.25 TW), then for a global electric capacity would be:

Capacity = 6.5 billion (world population) * 025 TW / 300 million = ~5.4 TW

Current world capacity is approximately 4 TW, so the world is still short of electricity even if everyone (including the 75% reduction in the US) used the lower value.  Since most of the current electric capacity is fossil fired, we are talking about putting in several terawatts worth of power across the globe.  Solar and wind require either energy storage to stand alone or they have to be connected to baseload generation.  The challenge as I see it is to either develop a cheap means of energy storage or accept a baseload technology until such energy storage is perfected.  Geothermal can provide a chunk and maybe OTEC and small-head hydro, but you will likely come up short.  The less savory sources (e.g., fission, carbon sequestration, etc.) will probably be needed to fill the gap at least temporarily.

I agree with you that we need to do a better job generating energy (including fairness of impact) as well as finding more efficient ways to use it, however we do need substantial amounts of electricity for our society and we should think about the hard choices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy &#8211; </p>
<p>Maybe my numbers are wrong, but here goes:</p>
<p>US population is about 300 million<br />
US electric capacity is about 1 TW  (around 1200 St. Lucie sized reactors)</p>
<p>If we use Amory Lovins claim that one can get along fine with 25% of US per capita electric capacity (total becomes 0.25 TW), then for a global electric capacity would be:</p>
<p>Capacity = 6.5 billion (world population) * 025 TW / 300 million = ~5.4 TW</p>
<p>Current world capacity is approximately 4 TW, so the world is still short of electricity even if everyone (including the 75% reduction in the US) used the lower value.  Since most of the current electric capacity is fossil fired, we are talking about putting in several terawatts worth of power across the globe.  Solar and wind require either energy storage to stand alone or they have to be connected to baseload generation.  The challenge as I see it is to either develop a cheap means of energy storage or accept a baseload technology until such energy storage is perfected.  Geothermal can provide a chunk and maybe OTEC and small-head hydro, but you will likely come up short.  The less savory sources (e.g., fission, carbon sequestration, etc.) will probably be needed to fill the gap at least temporarily.</p>
<p>I agree with you that we need to do a better job generating energy (including fairness of impact) as well as finding more efficient ways to use it, however we do need substantial amounts of electricity for our society and we should think about the hard choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/#comment-60906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Ortiz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4284#comment-60906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To answer your last point Robert, I fail to see why supplying carbon free energy will be such a huge challenge. At least in the area where I was there was abundant wind and sun, and I have no doubt that employing those renewable energy technologies, and maybe some small scale hydro could provide more than enough power. Why must we assume that all new energy development needs to be carbon based?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your last point Robert, I fail to see why supplying carbon free energy will be such a huge challenge. At least in the area where I was there was abundant wind and sun, and I have no doubt that employing those renewable energy technologies, and maybe some small scale hydro could provide more than enough power. Why must we assume that all new energy development needs to be carbon based?</p>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/#comment-60892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R Margolis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4284#comment-60892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anna -

I was trying to say that even if you get rid of the &quot;stuff&quot; and remember many folks will disagree on what is wasteful and what is beneficial, you will likely be looking at a world that needs 25% - 40% of the US per capita electric capacity.  Even if the US disappears, there will be a net electric demand (although a one time increase if population is brought under control).  How to supply these thousands of megawatts without carbon will be quite a challenge.  

Guyana does not need to become the US, but even they and the rest of the world become half a  Switzerland, you have a BIG electric demand.  It is simple arithmetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna -</p>
<p>I was trying to say that even if you get rid of the &#8220;stuff&#8221; and remember many folks will disagree on what is wasteful and what is beneficial, you will likely be looking at a world that needs 25% &#8211; 40% of the US per capita electric capacity.  Even if the US disappears, there will be a net electric demand (although a one time increase if population is brought under control).  How to supply these thousands of megawatts without carbon will be quite a challenge.  </p>
<p>Guyana does not need to become the US, but even they and the rest of the world become half a  Switzerland, you have a BIG electric demand.  It is simple arithmetic.</p>
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		<title>By: annastarrrose</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/#comment-60887</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[annastarrrose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4284#comment-60887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert, you are talking about improving the service (environmental services, health services) economy in Guyana - Amy is talking about getting rid of the &quot;stuff&quot; economy in the US, to simplify our lifestyles so that we can get rid of all the useless possessions that people feel they &quot;need&quot; that trap them in soul-crushing, earth-destroying jobs and destroy the sense of community that many places in the global south still have. Guyana does not need to develop a huge &quot;material/ stuff&quot; economy in order to develop its service economy. I think you&#039;re creating a false dichotomy here.

Amy - Thanks for this post. I have felt similar feelings after living in Morocco, where of course there are many social problems (many stemming from lack of education and healthcare) but the sense of community was so much stronger than what I&#039;ve experienced in Australia and people genuinely do seem happier in terms of their day-to-day lives. 

Travelling around north america these last 7 months, living out of a backpack (and sometimes just a really small bag) I have realised how little material possessions I actually need to survive, and how much happier I am without a lot of stuff around. Especially clothes - when I only have a choice of 1 pair of jeans, a thermal top, 2 t-shirts and one jumper (&quot;sweater&quot; in US lingo), it means I don&#039;t have to think about what to wear and I can just focus on what I&#039;m doing and who I&#039;m with. 

I really dislike cities because it makes me feel depressed seeing concrete everywhere - we have distorted the world so much, scarred its face with pavement and skyscrapers. I agree that we should never accept the world as it currently is - and I&#039;m glad we&#039;re changing it, together.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, you are talking about improving the service (environmental services, health services) economy in Guyana &#8211; Amy is talking about getting rid of the &#8220;stuff&#8221; economy in the US, to simplify our lifestyles so that we can get rid of all the useless possessions that people feel they &#8220;need&#8221; that trap them in soul-crushing, earth-destroying jobs and destroy the sense of community that many places in the global south still have. Guyana does not need to develop a huge &#8220;material/ stuff&#8221; economy in order to develop its service economy. I think you&#8217;re creating a false dichotomy here.</p>
<p>Amy &#8211; Thanks for this post. I have felt similar feelings after living in Morocco, where of course there are many social problems (many stemming from lack of education and healthcare) but the sense of community was so much stronger than what I&#8217;ve experienced in Australia and people genuinely do seem happier in terms of their day-to-day lives. </p>
<p>Travelling around north america these last 7 months, living out of a backpack (and sometimes just a really small bag) I have realised how little material possessions I actually need to survive, and how much happier I am without a lot of stuff around. Especially clothes &#8211; when I only have a choice of 1 pair of jeans, a thermal top, 2 t-shirts and one jumper (&#8220;sweater&#8221; in US lingo), it means I don&#8217;t have to think about what to wear and I can just focus on what I&#8217;m doing and who I&#8217;m with. </p>
<p>I really dislike cities because it makes me feel depressed seeing concrete everywhere &#8211; we have distorted the world so much, scarred its face with pavement and skyscrapers. I agree that we should never accept the world as it currently is &#8211; and I&#8217;m glad we&#8217;re changing it, together.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/02/01/meditations-on-stuff/#comment-60869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R Margolis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.wordpress.com/?p=4284#comment-60869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the average lifespan in Guyana?  Infant mortality?  My guess is that they are less than in the OECD countries.  Even if you get rid of the &quot;excess stuff&quot; you still need quite a lot of energy to purify water, preserve food (refrigeration), and run vital services such as hospitals.  

Certainly we should be more efficient and do better job cleaning up our pollution.  However, I do not think that most of the globe wants to live like Guyana.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the average lifespan in Guyana?  Infant mortality?  My guess is that they are less than in the OECD countries.  Even if you get rid of the &#8220;excess stuff&#8221; you still need quite a lot of energy to purify water, preserve food (refrigeration), and run vital services such as hospitals.  </p>
<p>Certainly we should be more efficient and do better job cleaning up our pollution.  However, I do not think that most of the globe wants to live like Guyana.</p>
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