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	<title>Comments on: Members of Durban Group For Climate Justice on Carbon Trading Speaking Tour this Winter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cascadia Brian</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60404</link>
		<dc:creator>Cascadia Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60404</guid>
		<description>There actually is DC dates! They haven't been posted yet, but they will be soon and are in late February.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There actually is DC dates! They haven&#8217;t been posted yet, but they will be soon and are in late February.</p>
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		<title>By: iloveobama</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60129</link>
		<dc:creator>iloveobama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60129</guid>
		<description>why arent there any workshops in washington d.c.?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why arent there any workshops in washington d.c.?</p>
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		<title>By: Cascadia Brian</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60089</link>
		<dc:creator>Cascadia Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60089</guid>
		<description>Thought folks might be interested in this:

Biotech firm plans to fund GM rice crops with carbon credits
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jan/08/gmcrops.food</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought folks might be interested in this:</p>
<p>Biotech firm plans to fund GM rice crops with carbon credits<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jan/08/gmcrops.food" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jan/08/gmcrops.food</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cascadia Brian</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60047</link>
		<dc:creator>Cascadia Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60047</guid>
		<description>first off, there's a great interview with two of the tour participants at Celcias magazine:

http://www.celsias.com/2008/01/07/fighting-false-solutions-an-interview-with-kevin-smith-and-jutta-kill/

As for the question on alternative, I don't believe there is a specific platform of solutions that these speakers are endorsing, although I'm sure they each have their own views on the subject - you'll have to meet up at the tour at some point to find out!

One thing I think most of us can agree on is that an extremely aggressive renewable portfolio standard is a far more direct way to eliminate the use of fossil fuels than trading carbon, and leaves far less loopholes open to manipulation.

One of the strongest arguments against carbon trading in my mind is that (in no small part because of it's complexity and opacity) it's a method that is extremely susceptible to industry influence. 99.9% of people in this world have no idea what the difference between auction and give-a-way systems of cap-and-trade are for example....it seems incredibly likely to me, given the nature of political compromises in politics that if the enviro mainstream demands cap-and-auction, and the right wing demands no action, that we'll get the compromise of cap-and-giveaway.

On the other hand, almost everyone can understand "mandatory phase out fossil fuel portfolios by [X % by] this year, with targets based on the best available science" ...which makes it less a demand that is far less susceptible to manipulate and resolve by a bogus "compromise".

Another VERY serious problem some countries in Europe are seeing is that Cap and Trade has the potential to OVERRULE other efforts for promoting renewables and/or make them political unviable (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/23/renewableenergy.energy).

This -- another too-extremely-nuanced for public understanding yet environmentally devastating reality -- should really drive fear in the hearts of anyone who has the slightest doubt that corporations could rig and/or play Carbon Trading to their own interests....

Ask yourself this: why are so many of huge companies that care only about the bottom line promoting it? Do you really think companies that have endorsed cap-and-trade like BP (developers of the Tar Sands) and Duke Energy (one of the worst coal companies in the US) have suddenly started caring about global warming?

They haven't. If they have they wouldn't be simultaneously and constantly expanding their fossil fuel portfolios. They think they can pull a fast one on us (exactly like they did in Europe) and make some big bucks on cap-and-giveaway. 

It amazes me that so many enviros can on the one hand call these companies villains and destroyers of our future, and at the same time swallow hook and sinker -- no, actively promote! -- their recommendations for solving the problems they created, even as they brazenly continue to perpetuate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>first off, there&#8217;s a great interview with two of the tour participants at Celcias magazine:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.celsias.com/2008/01/07/fighting-false-solutions-an-interview-with-kevin-smith-and-jutta-kill/" rel="nofollow">http://www.celsias.com/2008/01/07/fighting-false-solutions-an-interview-with-kevin-smith-and-jutta-kill/</a></p>
<p>As for the question on alternative, I don&#8217;t believe there is a specific platform of solutions that these speakers are endorsing, although I&#8217;m sure they each have their own views on the subject - you&#8217;ll have to meet up at the tour at some point to find out!</p>
<p>One thing I think most of us can agree on is that an extremely aggressive renewable portfolio standard is a far more direct way to eliminate the use of fossil fuels than trading carbon, and leaves far less loopholes open to manipulation.</p>
<p>One of the strongest arguments against carbon trading in my mind is that (in no small part because of it&#8217;s complexity and opacity) it&#8217;s a method that is extremely susceptible to industry influence. 99.9% of people in this world have no idea what the difference between auction and give-a-way systems of cap-and-trade are for example&#8230;.it seems incredibly likely to me, given the nature of political compromises in politics that if the enviro mainstream demands cap-and-auction, and the right wing demands no action, that we&#8217;ll get the compromise of cap-and-giveaway.</p>
<p>On the other hand, almost everyone can understand &#8220;mandatory phase out fossil fuel portfolios by [X % by] this year, with targets based on the best available science&#8221; &#8230;which makes it less a demand that is far less susceptible to manipulate and resolve by a bogus &#8220;compromise&#8221;.</p>
<p>Another VERY serious problem some countries in Europe are seeing is that Cap and Trade has the potential to OVERRULE other efforts for promoting renewables and/or make them political unviable (see <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/23/renewableenergy.energy" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/23/renewableenergy.energy</a>).</p>
<p>This &#8212; another too-extremely-nuanced for public understanding yet environmentally devastating reality &#8212; should really drive fear in the hearts of anyone who has the slightest doubt that corporations could rig and/or play Carbon Trading to their own interests&#8230;.</p>
<p>Ask yourself this: why are so many of huge companies that care only about the bottom line promoting it? Do you really think companies that have endorsed cap-and-trade like BP (developers of the Tar Sands) and Duke Energy (one of the worst coal companies in the US) have suddenly started caring about global warming?</p>
<p>They haven&#8217;t. If they have they wouldn&#8217;t be simultaneously and constantly expanding their fossil fuel portfolios. They think they can pull a fast one on us (exactly like they did in Europe) and make some big bucks on cap-and-giveaway. </p>
<p>It amazes me that so many enviros can on the one hand call these companies villains and destroyers of our future, and at the same time swallow hook and sinker &#8212; no, actively promote! &#8212; their recommendations for solving the problems they created, even as they brazenly continue to perpetuate them.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60046</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60046</guid>
		<description>A big mistake other countries have made is not having a 100% auction.  This would prevent any credits from being given away.  Other than that, I second Richard's question: what's the alternative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big mistake other countries have made is not having a 100% auction.  This would prevent any credits from being given away.  Other than that, I second Richard&#8217;s question: what&#8217;s the alternative?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60042</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-60042</guid>
		<description>Here are some alternative proposals... http://ips-dc.org/reports/070915_manifesto.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some alternative proposals&#8230; <a href="http://ips-dc.org/reports/070915_manifesto.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ips-dc.org/reports/070915_manifesto.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Graves</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-59945</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Graves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2008/01/05/members-of-durban-group-for-climate-justice-on-carbon-trading-speaking-tour-this-winter/#comment-59945</guid>
		<description>Sounds interesting. Is there a primary alternative global warming policy they have gotten behind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds interesting. Is there a primary alternative global warming policy they have gotten behind?</p>
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