Comments on: From the Nightmare to the Dream – Introduction to Break Through (Part 5 of 5) http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/ Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:09:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: jessejenkins http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57640 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:34:23 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57640 Evan, thanks for the thoughtful comments.

You’re certainly right that the content I post here has the effect of guiding discussion. That was definitely my intent (as I think this is a book worth engaging with).

But as Arthur points out, IGHIH is a community of over one hundred contributors and thousands of readers (all free to comment), and they have many many different opinions and voices. If you’d like to apply for a contributor’s account and post your own posts, please email blogmaster[at]itsgettinghotinhere.org.

This is indeed the first time we’ve posted an intro (or other large excerpt) from a book. The authors attended PowerShift and spoke there and were engaged with/by many young “Power Shifters”. Shellenberger and Nordhaus thought we might like to continue that dialog here and offered the intro to post here (with no copywrite concerns). If any other authors approach us with similar offers and excerpts of topical books, I think we’d be happy to post them here too. Please just contact the same email as above if you’re out there…

Take care all,

Jesse

]]> By: Evan http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57638 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:59:11 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57638 WriterGirl, first off, thank you for calling me out and telling me to actually read before criticizing… I appreciate it.

I have gone back and read the introduction and I will go ahead and say I agree with the premise that we need more in the way of seductive “dreams” about this world and our way of living in it. Absolutely. But I wonder at the same time, why the “politics of possibility” indicated still takes on the idea of economic growth. The idea that countries become more conscious of their bioregions’ health as economic prosperity increases strikes me as not being fully true. I wonder, have the people in the bioregions of what is called the “United States” truly become more connected with the world in which they live in the past fifty, one-hundred, two-hundred, one-thousand years?

This notion of economic growth parallels increased health in the bioregion sometimes, I fear, ignores the real truths of the matter. Let me give an example. I live in the Haw River watershed in the piedmont of North Carolina. This area used to be a textile and hosiery capital of the world. It was big. Many who have lived in the area for a long time can recall being able to see the Haw River change colors depending on which week it was and which dyes and chemicals were being dumped into the river. This no longer happens, they say, which is clear indication that things have improved. Well, the textile industry in this area was effectively killed and exported with the passage of NAFTA to other countries, like Mexico. The pollution did not go away, it merely moved from the affluent country to the poor countries. We see similar things happen within this country as landfills and toxic waste dump sites are planned and placed in impoverished areas and on Native American reservations. The pollution isn’t always eliminated so much as it is hidden.

I certainly also agree that the category of “environment” is not helpful and only further solidifies the illusion of a separation between the human and more-than-human world. But I am not sure how a vision that does not get broader than the current economics and politics of our time can really be seen as a big enough vision. I do not want to suggest that working within the system and getting alternative technologies and green investments is a bad thing, but I think it needs to be set in a context of a wider, more radical vision about human life in the planet. I think if anything, my sense of dismay with this kind of book is that it may promote itself as offering visions and breakthroughs, but, at least from the introduction, it does not seem to offer the radical dreams that we really need.

Jesse, I understand that IGHIH may not officially endorse the ideas of the book and I do not want to come across as being opposed the free access of information, but the choice to provide the introduction to this particular book instead of others does send a message and does send discourse in a particular direction. All choices can be read this way and it can’t be avoided, but I am concerned about it nonetheless.

]]> By: Arthur Coulston http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57637 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:36:06 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57637 Just wanted to point out that there are a ton of contributors to ItsGettingHotInHere.org representing a lot of different ideas and perspectives on climate and energy. There is a link to how to apply to be a contributor in the right hand column. I have heard a wide range of opinions about Nordhous/Shellenberger’s work. I know for a fact there are some strong critics as well as evangelists within our contributors. I tend to stick in the “lets stop talking and get to work” camp.

]]> By: jessejenkins http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57636 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:27:40 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57636 Evan, I should note that IGHIH is not “supporting” this book. We were offered an opportunity to present the introduction of the book here, for free, for those who were interested to engage with it and the ideas it presents. We’re not officially endorsing the ideas (as if IGHIH could officially endorse anything!) – although I personally find much in Break Through that is agreeable.

We merely present it here to promote thought and engagement with the critical issues raised by the book and the admittedly somewhat controversial ideas it promotes. If you find them disagreeable, than by all means, let’s start a critical and thoughtful discussion about those ideas.

]]> By: WriterGirl http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57634 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:53:07 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57634 Evan, you should really read the excerpt – not to mention the book – before offering such negative feedback!
Their vision is very revolutionary and speaks to the realistic solutions for the whole earth.

]]> By: Evan http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57615 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:26:35 +0000 http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/12/02/from-the-nightmare-to-the-dream-introduction-to-break-through-part-5-of-5/#comment-57615 Why is It’s Getting Hot In Here supporting this book? From my understanding it just perpetuates the same economic myths that “prosperity leads to moral progress.” If the US in the last 70 years is any indication, that’s bullshit. The US has gotten a lot richer and a lot more wasteful and resource-intensive. Yeah, let’s provide a vision, but let’s provide a real revolutionary vision for the whole earth including human and more-than-human communities… let’s not just stick to this capitalist-republic framework.

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