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	<title>Comments on: Transportation in a Climate Neutral World</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: Transportation in a Climate Neutral World &#171; Carlos Rymer&#39;s Personal Blog</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-81546</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Transportation in a Climate Neutral World &#171; Carlos Rymer&#39;s Personal Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-81546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Transportation in a Climate Neutral&#160;World By Carlos Rymer  Originally published in It&#8217;s Getting Hot In Here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Transportation in a Climate Neutral&nbsp;World By Carlos Rymer  Originally published in It&#8217;s Getting Hot In Here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Ortiz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To answer the sprawl is not inherently bad, population density is not inherently good people, I would like to give an example from Florida, where I live currently, also one of the most sprawled out places I&#039;ve ever seen.
  Suburban sprawl, as practiced here, results in a huge amount of habitat being lost, 6 lane roads as the norm, creates a transport environment where buses are incredible time consuming and frustrating and biking is a brush with death. Gated communities are also the norm and create a sense of fear and isolation. There is no sense of community, because instead of seeing fellow humans face to face as you go about your daily activities, you merely see the car in front of you. 
   Strip malls filled with chains and big box retailers dominate the landscape. Housing segregation  intensifies. Loneliness and a lack of community becomes the norm.
    This sort of development is not good for people or the environment. Come down to North Miami or the increasingly built up West Palm Beach area if you want to see this first hand. There is a 300 mile strip on the east coast of Florida where there is unrelenting sprawl. It looks exactly the same from Palm Beach to Miami. It&#039;s not a good place to live. And an incredibly diverse and endemic ecosystem has been swallowed up.
    This model of development is not the way forward. Higher density development which reduces the dependence on cars and impact on the land is inherently preferable to this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer the sprawl is not inherently bad, population density is not inherently good people, I would like to give an example from Florida, where I live currently, also one of the most sprawled out places I&#8217;ve ever seen.<br />
  Suburban sprawl, as practiced here, results in a huge amount of habitat being lost, 6 lane roads as the norm, creates a transport environment where buses are incredible time consuming and frustrating and biking is a brush with death. Gated communities are also the norm and create a sense of fear and isolation. There is no sense of community, because instead of seeing fellow humans face to face as you go about your daily activities, you merely see the car in front of you.<br />
   Strip malls filled with chains and big box retailers dominate the landscape. Housing segregation  intensifies. Loneliness and a lack of community becomes the norm.<br />
    This sort of development is not good for people or the environment. Come down to North Miami or the increasingly built up West Palm Beach area if you want to see this first hand. There is a 300 mile strip on the east coast of Florida where there is unrelenting sprawl. It looks exactly the same from Palm Beach to Miami. It&#8217;s not a good place to live. And an incredibly diverse and endemic ecosystem has been swallowed up.<br />
    This model of development is not the way forward. Higher density development which reduces the dependence on cars and impact on the land is inherently preferable to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Connecting News, Commentaries and Blogs at NineReports.com -</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Connecting News, Commentaries and Blogs at NineReports.com -]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] falls amid doubts about 4Q demand ...Blogged about at  Transportation in a Climate Neutral World - it&#039;s getting hot in here, Energy futures fell Friday as traders expecting a weakening of demand in the coming months cashed [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] falls amid doubts about 4Q demand &#8230;Blogged about at  Transportation in a Climate Neutral World &#8211; it&#8217;s getting hot in here, Energy futures fell Friday as traders expecting a weakening of demand in the coming months cashed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mattreitman</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mattreitman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 04:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about less horizontal transportation and more vertical?  To go a block on a street you have to walk a couple hundred feet; to go a block on a stairway you only need to go maybe 20.

Miniaturization.  Complexity.  Arcosanti:
http://www.arcosanti.org/media/publication/hyperBuilding.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about less horizontal transportation and more vertical?  To go a block on a street you have to walk a couple hundred feet; to go a block on a stairway you only need to go maybe 20.</p>
<p>Miniaturization.  Complexity.  Arcosanti:<br />
<a href="http://www.arcosanti.org/media/publication/hyperBuilding.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.arcosanti.org/media/publication/hyperBuilding.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here are some facts you need to know:

-About 3% of America is covered over in residential urnbanisation - hence, vast room for low-density expansion. The American population can be stabilised by reducing net immigration.
-ULTra PRT is being installed in Heathrow airport right now - low costs are confirmed with full-scale prototypes.  
-At-grade ULTra applications are extremely cheap, and have enormous potential for new &quot;eco&quot; property developments.
-PRT systems, such as ULTra, can be platooned (vehicles operate very close, like a train) - eliminating capacity concerns.
-Electric cars can be built to be as much as 4x more energy-efficient than public transport (at an extreme).  
-Contrary to incessant propaganda, modern cars, on avererage, are as energy-efficent as buses and trains (trains are terribly over-rated).
-Sprawl does not create congestion iin itself - population-growth does.  Sprawl helps to keep the progressive development of congestion under control by helping to localise new travel-demand to the city fringes.
-The missmatch between modern origon-to-destination travel-demand and public tranport (linehaul) is diabolical. 
-The far-reaching growth-potential with linehaul systems is hopelessly limited - for the most part, they can only support CBDs.
-High-density cities are not more energy-efficient in terms of transport.  Though distances covered are less in high-density cities, high-density cities suffer from worse congestion and therefore create inefficient stop-and-go travel (eg. New York).  This is a fact (though sadly never advertised).
-Private, fast, convenient on-demand travel is inherently more attractive to the consumer - and this fact has nothing to do with &quot;habits&quot;.
-The future will be ULTra developing, over time, into a fully automated transportation network that also operates on roads. 
-Future property development will be low-density ultra-efficient true garden cities (with very little roading, due to the use of the at-grade PRT format) that promote intensive replantation.
-Communites based on forced-associations are often &quot;polite&quot;, but are not real.  
-Cars provide &quot;private&quot; communities, which is what everyone really wants - that is, both privacy and good social access (to friends, family and kinky sex-partners that they meet online etc.).
-There is nothing wrong with &quot;individualism&quot; so long as the individual respects others and plays fair on a give-and-take basis.  
-There is much wrong with telling people how to live their lives (not to suggest you&#039;ve done that - just making a point).
-With modern technology we can have our cake and eat it too.
-The truth will prevail - in time!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some facts you need to know:</p>
<p>-About 3% of America is covered over in residential urnbanisation &#8211; hence, vast room for low-density expansion. The American population can be stabilised by reducing net immigration.<br />
-ULTra PRT is being installed in Heathrow airport right now &#8211; low costs are confirmed with full-scale prototypes.<br />
-At-grade ULTra applications are extremely cheap, and have enormous potential for new &#8220;eco&#8221; property developments.<br />
-PRT systems, such as ULTra, can be platooned (vehicles operate very close, like a train) &#8211; eliminating capacity concerns.<br />
-Electric cars can be built to be as much as 4x more energy-efficient than public transport (at an extreme).<br />
-Contrary to incessant propaganda, modern cars, on avererage, are as energy-efficent as buses and trains (trains are terribly over-rated).<br />
-Sprawl does not create congestion iin itself &#8211; population-growth does.  Sprawl helps to keep the progressive development of congestion under control by helping to localise new travel-demand to the city fringes.<br />
-The missmatch between modern origon-to-destination travel-demand and public tranport (linehaul) is diabolical.<br />
-The far-reaching growth-potential with linehaul systems is hopelessly limited &#8211; for the most part, they can only support CBDs.<br />
-High-density cities are not more energy-efficient in terms of transport.  Though distances covered are less in high-density cities, high-density cities suffer from worse congestion and therefore create inefficient stop-and-go travel (eg. New York).  This is a fact (though sadly never advertised).<br />
-Private, fast, convenient on-demand travel is inherently more attractive to the consumer &#8211; and this fact has nothing to do with &#8220;habits&#8221;.<br />
-The future will be ULTra developing, over time, into a fully automated transportation network that also operates on roads.<br />
-Future property development will be low-density ultra-efficient true garden cities (with very little roading, due to the use of the at-grade PRT format) that promote intensive replantation.<br />
-Communites based on forced-associations are often &#8220;polite&#8221;, but are not real.<br />
-Cars provide &#8220;private&#8221; communities, which is what everyone really wants &#8211; that is, both privacy and good social access (to friends, family and kinky sex-partners that they meet online etc.).<br />
-There is nothing wrong with &#8220;individualism&#8221; so long as the individual respects others and plays fair on a give-and-take basis.<br />
-There is much wrong with telling people how to live their lives (not to suggest you&#8217;ve done that &#8211; just making a point).<br />
-With modern technology we can have our cake and eat it too.<br />
-The truth will prevail &#8211; in time!</p>
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		<title>By: James Anderson Merritt</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Anderson Merritt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the PRT idea a lot, and think it would be more pleasant and cost-effective than heavier rail and buses. I don&#039;t know about Avidor, but I would be happy to have a PRT guideway running along my street, especially if it meant there would be fewer or no diesel-smoke belching buses, of the type that now travel my street regularly. I&#039;m sure guideway routes can be chosen to minimize whatever &quot;aesthetic degradation&quot; people like Avidor imagine.

I think that the amount of land and resources (not considering fuels) that we devote to personal autos is unfortunate, and PRT has the potential of freeing up some of those resources, especially the land, as well as making our streets safer.

I add, however, that if everyone switched to electric cars, we would be most of the way to a &quot;climate neutral&quot; world, insofar as personal transportation were concerned. An electric car that gets its electrons from hydro-, wind-, solar- or other sources that do not involve greenhouse gas emissions is not part of the problem. Even if the electrons come from greenhouse gas emitting sources, I have seen analyses which show that, even taking the losses of electricity transmission and battery charging into account, an EV still gets more miles from a unit of fossil fuel than does a combustion engine designed to burn that fuel in a personal vehicle.

Other than &quot;increasing emissions,&quot; how does &quot;sprawl&quot; defeat the goal of a &quot;climate neutral&quot; world? People need their space. Living in too close proximity to others (or having to work or travel in crowded circumstances) causes stress, anxiety, and conflict. I&#039;m all for reducing the need to travel, but am not sure that greatly increasing population densities is the way to do it. It makes sense to me to reduce the need for long-haul commuting where we can, to reduce the emissions involved in such commuting -- or in local travel, for that matter -- where we can, and to reduce the amount of land necessary to support personal vehicles where we can. I&#039;d also like to see any society that wishes it be able to break free of petroleum dependence. I think PRT can help us achieve most of those goals, which is one reason I support at least the continued examination and exploration of the idea.

One thing you should bear in mind is that the climate has always changed and will always change. Even if there were no humans, the climate would eventually turn nasty for some organisms and friendly to others. It happened long before we arrived and will continue long after we are gone. So the real question of concern to us is how to maximize our own happiness and ability to thrive with minimum disruption of ongoing natural processes. Also, how to adapt to the inevitable consequences of those natural processes when we must, and not delude ourselves into thinking that we are modifying or hastening them, much less that changing our behavior can disturb well-established trends in climate change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the PRT idea a lot, and think it would be more pleasant and cost-effective than heavier rail and buses. I don&#8217;t know about Avidor, but I would be happy to have a PRT guideway running along my street, especially if it meant there would be fewer or no diesel-smoke belching buses, of the type that now travel my street regularly. I&#8217;m sure guideway routes can be chosen to minimize whatever &#8220;aesthetic degradation&#8221; people like Avidor imagine.</p>
<p>I think that the amount of land and resources (not considering fuels) that we devote to personal autos is unfortunate, and PRT has the potential of freeing up some of those resources, especially the land, as well as making our streets safer.</p>
<p>I add, however, that if everyone switched to electric cars, we would be most of the way to a &#8220;climate neutral&#8221; world, insofar as personal transportation were concerned. An electric car that gets its electrons from hydro-, wind-, solar- or other sources that do not involve greenhouse gas emissions is not part of the problem. Even if the electrons come from greenhouse gas emitting sources, I have seen analyses which show that, even taking the losses of electricity transmission and battery charging into account, an EV still gets more miles from a unit of fossil fuel than does a combustion engine designed to burn that fuel in a personal vehicle.</p>
<p>Other than &#8220;increasing emissions,&#8221; how does &#8220;sprawl&#8221; defeat the goal of a &#8220;climate neutral&#8221; world? People need their space. Living in too close proximity to others (or having to work or travel in crowded circumstances) causes stress, anxiety, and conflict. I&#8217;m all for reducing the need to travel, but am not sure that greatly increasing population densities is the way to do it. It makes sense to me to reduce the need for long-haul commuting where we can, to reduce the emissions involved in such commuting &#8212; or in local travel, for that matter &#8212; where we can, and to reduce the amount of land necessary to support personal vehicles where we can. I&#8217;d also like to see any society that wishes it be able to break free of petroleum dependence. I think PRT can help us achieve most of those goals, which is one reason I support at least the continued examination and exploration of the idea.</p>
<p>One thing you should bear in mind is that the climate has always changed and will always change. Even if there were no humans, the climate would eventually turn nasty for some organisms and friendly to others. It happened long before we arrived and will continue long after we are gone. So the real question of concern to us is how to maximize our own happiness and ability to thrive with minimum disruption of ongoing natural processes. Also, how to adapt to the inevitable consequences of those natural processes when we must, and not delude ourselves into thinking that we are modifying or hastening them, much less that changing our behavior can disturb well-established trends in climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Hi_Ken!</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54211</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hi_Ken!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read about one of Ken Avidor&#039;s greatest misses:

http://innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/04/see-how-nothing-he-writes-can-be.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read about one of Ken Avidor&#8217;s greatest misses:</p>
<p><a href="http://innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/04/see-how-nothing-he-writes-can-be.html" rel="nofollow">http://innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/04/see-how-nothing-he-writes-can-be.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Golam Shaifullah</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golam Shaifullah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 04:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hey, 
 awesome post. I&#039;m from Bangalore, India. It seems that the State government of Karnataka (the state of which Bangalore is the capital) is constructing an MRT (Mass Rapid Transit) system which uses both elevated and ground rail systems. I personally do not see this system as the perfect solution to fossil fuel based transport as most of our electricity still comes from coal and, Nuclear Energy is still being offered as the &#039;manna from heaven&#039; kind of solution in India. Even then, Electric transport is way better off and definitely requires our attention. However in India, we seem to face a very peculiar problem. Even though some cities offer excellent MRT services, which include ground based, underground and in one instance overhead systems, the number of cars on the road do not seem to reduce. I personally believe that the reason behind this is simply the massive media attention that is devoted to cars, as also an incorrect interpretation of cars as status symbols; implying every person who can, should go get a car. Then there is the completely flaky leadership which is willing to lower the emission standards so that companies like Harley-Davidson may sell their bikes here in exchange for the great gift of an increase in the amount mangoes India is allowed to export to the US. All this while recorded data indicates rising temperatures and unstable precipitation are actually leading to loss in Mango production! Among the most ironical facts is that an electric car conceived and created in India has found greater acceptance in Britain. One wonders  why....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey,<br />
 awesome post. I&#8217;m from Bangalore, India. It seems that the State government of Karnataka (the state of which Bangalore is the capital) is constructing an MRT (Mass Rapid Transit) system which uses both elevated and ground rail systems. I personally do not see this system as the perfect solution to fossil fuel based transport as most of our electricity still comes from coal and, Nuclear Energy is still being offered as the &#8216;manna from heaven&#8217; kind of solution in India. Even then, Electric transport is way better off and definitely requires our attention. However in India, we seem to face a very peculiar problem. Even though some cities offer excellent MRT services, which include ground based, underground and in one instance overhead systems, the number of cars on the road do not seem to reduce. I personally believe that the reason behind this is simply the massive media attention that is devoted to cars, as also an incorrect interpretation of cars as status symbols; implying every person who can, should go get a car. Then there is the completely flaky leadership which is willing to lower the emission standards so that companies like Harley-Davidson may sell their bikes here in exchange for the great gift of an increase in the amount mangoes India is allowed to export to the US. All this while recorded data indicates rising temperatures and unstable precipitation are actually leading to loss in Mango production! Among the most ironical facts is that an electric car conceived and created in India has found greater acceptance in Britain. One wonders  why&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mattreitman</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mattreitman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 03:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[once again carlos, a great post.  i really enjoy your uncompromised perspective, and never really understood the buzz about CAFE standards anyway, since even the loftiest CAFE goals don&#039;t come anywhere close to really addressing the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>once again carlos, a great post.  i really enjoy your uncompromised perspective, and never really understood the buzz about CAFE standards anyway, since even the loftiest CAFE goals don&#8217;t come anywhere close to really addressing the problem.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: avidor</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[avidor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/#comment-54190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That PRT Wikipedia page was written by PRT promoters.

PRT is really a hoax... a stalking horse to spread disinformation about LRT and commuter rail.

Does anybody really think that people (real people, not the digital mannequins that inhabit the computer-generated simulations on PRT websites) would cut down half the trees on their block for an elevated structure with a clear view into their bedroom window?

PRT  is an infeasible transportation concept that has a 30-year record of controversy and failure.
The biggest supporters of PRT are the usual anti-rail transit suspects (MN Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, MN Representative Mark Olson, CETA member Emory Bundy…Google those with PRT and see what you get).

Here&#039;s a You Tube video about the PRT fiasco in Minnesota:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwA6oSdEahs]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That PRT Wikipedia page was written by PRT promoters.</p>
<p>PRT is really a hoax&#8230; a stalking horse to spread disinformation about LRT and commuter rail.</p>
<p>Does anybody really think that people (real people, not the digital mannequins that inhabit the computer-generated simulations on PRT websites) would cut down half the trees on their block for an elevated structure with a clear view into their bedroom window?</p>
<p>PRT  is an infeasible transportation concept that has a 30-year record of controversy and failure.<br />
The biggest supporters of PRT are the usual anti-rail transit suspects (MN Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, MN Representative Mark Olson, CETA member Emory Bundy…Google those with PRT and see what you get).</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a You Tube video about the PRT fiasco in Minnesota:</p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/10/05/transportation-in-a-climate-neutral-world/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/WwA6oSdEahs/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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