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	<title>Comments on: Putting Aside Percentages &#8211; the Right Target in the Fight Against Global Warming is Carbon Neutrality!</title>
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	<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/</link>
	<description>Dispatches from the Youth Climate Movement</description>
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		<title>By: A New Rallying Cry: A Carbon Neutral U.S. &#171; Sustainable Ithaca</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-53789</link>
		<dc:creator>A New Rallying Cry: A Carbon Neutral U.S. &#171; Sustainable Ithaca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-53789</guid>
		<description>[...] http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-ag... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-ag.." rel="nofollow">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-ag..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dennismarkatos</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52304</link>
		<dc:creator>dennismarkatos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52304</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.  I think this makes a great point about the public&#039;s response to changing percentages (1) and provides the foundation to good political strategy (2)...

1. Wonkish numbers are hard rallying cries to unite the public around, whereas climate neutrality sounds and is awesome.  This is probably why HSBC, Google, Yahoo! and many others are committing to neutrality rather than the some % reduction by 2050 goal.  And I&#039;m proud that our efforts on campuses have gotten 350+ campuses to commit to climate neutrality together (here&#039;s to many more commitments and great progress toward emission reduction in the months ahead).  We are currently discussing climate neutrality at Princeton and trying to figure out how we can make it happen, and it feels great.

2. For us in the climate movement to win 80% reductions by 2050, political negotiations will have to take place to compromise to that point.  Thus, a huge percentage of the public calling for 80% by 2050 will probably result in less reduction due to the competition of the coal and oil companies lobby for status quo (resolution will be somewhere in-between).  But if the youth and other great environmental sustainability advocates call for climate neutrality by 2050 then the compromise position could be ~80% reduction.  Does this mean that we won&#039;t try to achieve any goal we set? No, but understanding the importance of fallback positions that we could be OK with if we don&#039;t accomplish all of our goals could be helpful.  

This is definitely an interesting conversation that shows great progress in the last couple of years as we&#039;ve discussed larger and larger emissions reduction targets.  Should someone make the case that we should be a carbon sink to help stabilize global warming from its increasing inertia?  (interesting future discussions will probably take on that subject...)  

The other side of this story is the importance of feasibility studies and respect for the large costs of decarbonization.  If we set an aspirational goal too high (like climate neutrality by 2015, then we will all be disappointed when we miss the goal and morale could fade).  Hopefully, technology that brings more efficiency and renewables will continue to rapidly develop, and we can make lifestyle transitions that help make quick emission reductions possible from fostering walkable and bikable communities and telecommuting when that fits to less folks craving gigantic houses that are energy-intensive to heat and cool.  The road of cultural and technological shift ahead will be a long one which will require us to maintain our youthful, adventurous, hopeful spirits strong.
      Onwards to sustainability,
           Dennis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.  I think this makes a great point about the public&#8217;s response to changing percentages (1) and provides the foundation to good political strategy (2)&#8230;</p>
<p>1. Wonkish numbers are hard rallying cries to unite the public around, whereas climate neutrality sounds and is awesome.  This is probably why HSBC, Google, Yahoo! and many others are committing to neutrality rather than the some % reduction by 2050 goal.  And I&#8217;m proud that our efforts on campuses have gotten 350+ campuses to commit to climate neutrality together (here&#8217;s to many more commitments and great progress toward emission reduction in the months ahead).  We are currently discussing climate neutrality at Princeton and trying to figure out how we can make it happen, and it feels great.</p>
<p>2. For us in the climate movement to win 80% reductions by 2050, political negotiations will have to take place to compromise to that point.  Thus, a huge percentage of the public calling for 80% by 2050 will probably result in less reduction due to the competition of the coal and oil companies lobby for status quo (resolution will be somewhere in-between).  But if the youth and other great environmental sustainability advocates call for climate neutrality by 2050 then the compromise position could be ~80% reduction.  Does this mean that we won&#8217;t try to achieve any goal we set? No, but understanding the importance of fallback positions that we could be OK with if we don&#8217;t accomplish all of our goals could be helpful.  </p>
<p>This is definitely an interesting conversation that shows great progress in the last couple of years as we&#8217;ve discussed larger and larger emissions reduction targets.  Should someone make the case that we should be a carbon sink to help stabilize global warming from its increasing inertia?  (interesting future discussions will probably take on that subject&#8230;)  </p>
<p>The other side of this story is the importance of feasibility studies and respect for the large costs of decarbonization.  If we set an aspirational goal too high (like climate neutrality by 2015, then we will all be disappointed when we miss the goal and morale could fade).  Hopefully, technology that brings more efficiency and renewables will continue to rapidly develop, and we can make lifestyle transitions that help make quick emission reductions possible from fostering walkable and bikable communities and telecommuting when that fits to less folks craving gigantic houses that are energy-intensive to heat and cool.  The road of cultural and technological shift ahead will be a long one which will require us to maintain our youthful, adventurous, hopeful spirits strong.<br />
      Onwards to sustainability,<br />
           Dennis</p>
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		<title>By: OneClimate.net &#187; The Right Target</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52141</link>
		<dc:creator>OneClimate.net &#187; The Right Target</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52141</guid>
		<description>[...] Hot In Here&#8217; blog, believes the right target is carbon neutrality. Read Jesse&#8217;s article here. This post has not been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hot In Here&#8217; blog, believes the right target is carbon neutrality. Read Jesse&#8217;s article here. This post has not been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PeteMcCaferty</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52123</link>
		<dc:creator>PeteMcCaferty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-52123</guid>
		<description>even if trapping CO2 and stopping strip mining were possible, cost effective, and we could figure out something to do with the waste would this still be a good solution? I think not. It seems like every time coal is brought up the focus is on strip mining and then the CO2 from the plants. We forget that, though strip mining(especially MTR)are terrible actions, deep mining isn&#039;t good either things like long wall mining and even traditional room and pillar mining have caused people to lose their homes, lively hoods and lives. We also seem to forget that when talking about coal plants that CO2 is not the only substance emitted there are many many others which have negative affects on people especially in the power plant communities. So though I agree that we need quick transition to solve the climate crisis I do not want us to go so quickly that we over look performing that transition in a JUST way. We need to have a unified vision of a better world with safe and clean energy sources, not the same unjust world that has a few retrofits and add ons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>even if trapping CO2 and stopping strip mining were possible, cost effective, and we could figure out something to do with the waste would this still be a good solution? I think not. It seems like every time coal is brought up the focus is on strip mining and then the CO2 from the plants. We forget that, though strip mining(especially MTR)are terrible actions, deep mining isn&#8217;t good either things like long wall mining and even traditional room and pillar mining have caused people to lose their homes, lively hoods and lives. We also seem to forget that when talking about coal plants that CO2 is not the only substance emitted there are many many others which have negative affects on people especially in the power plant communities. So though I agree that we need quick transition to solve the climate crisis I do not want us to go so quickly that we over look performing that transition in a JUST way. We need to have a unified vision of a better world with safe and clean energy sources, not the same unjust world that has a few retrofits and add ons.</p>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51977</link>
		<dc:creator>R Margolis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51977</guid>
		<description>Certainly carbon sequestration has the same issue as nuclear:  who will accept a repository (especially since coal would need many large sites).  Still, if the public accepts climate change and the need for carbon neutrality, then maybe political agreements are possible that could open up more options.  Especially if those options can be shown as both effective and least cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly carbon sequestration has the same issue as nuclear:  who will accept a repository (especially since coal would need many large sites).  Still, if the public accepts climate change and the need for carbon neutrality, then maybe political agreements are possible that could open up more options.  Especially if those options can be shown as both effective and least cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Rymer</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51612</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos Rymer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51612</guid>
		<description>If we can trap CO2 from coal plants AND stop strip mining around communities AND keep the price of coal-derived electricity lower than renewables, then that should be an option for this fast transition. Unfortunately, I don&#039;t think any process that dissolves CO2 and does nothing with it will work. Coal is mainly carbon, and thus it releases mostly CO2. A coal plant will produce a massive amount of CO2. Where will it go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we can trap CO2 from coal plants AND stop strip mining around communities AND keep the price of coal-derived electricity lower than renewables, then that should be an option for this fast transition. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think any process that dissolves CO2 and does nothing with it will work. Coal is mainly carbon, and thus it releases mostly CO2. A coal plant will produce a massive amount of CO2. Where will it go?</p>
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		<title>By: R Margolis</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51545</link>
		<dc:creator>R Margolis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51545</guid>
		<description>If speed of transition is now the highest priority, does this mean that coal units backfitted with ammonia cooled CO2 collectors would be acceptable?  These are being tested by utilities now.  I am not thrilled with coal, but the question of how to effect a quick, effective, and relatively economic transition hangs over the carbon issue.  

My guess is that most folks want cheap power and if they are convinced of global warming, then they want the cheapest solution.  The case for a more expensive way to do the same thing (make carbon neutral electricity) would need to be made to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If speed of transition is now the highest priority, does this mean that coal units backfitted with ammonia cooled CO2 collectors would be acceptable?  These are being tested by utilities now.  I am not thrilled with coal, but the question of how to effect a quick, effective, and relatively economic transition hangs over the carbon issue.  </p>
<p>My guess is that most folks want cheap power and if they are convinced of global warming, then they want the cheapest solution.  The case for a more expensive way to do the same thing (make carbon neutral electricity) would need to be made to the public.</p>
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		<title>By: jessejenkins</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51539</link>
		<dc:creator>jessejenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51539</guid>
		<description>I agree with Carlos that youth should be the first (and perhaps the loudest) to take up this call for carbon neutrality.  We&#039;ve got the most at stake and the least &#039;inside-the-beltway&#039; positioning to lose.  Youth have traditionally been at the vanguard of movements, calling for the most aggressive, most progressive action and the climate solutions movement should be no different.

I think we should make this message a central part of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.powershift07.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PowerShift 2007&lt;/a&gt;.  PowerShift, or &lt;a href=&quot;http://focusthenation.org&lt;/a&gt;Focus the Nation&lt;/a&gt; would both present an excellent opportunity for a Port Huron-type youth statement of principles on the climate crisis that makes the call for complete climate neutrality central to our platform.

It&#039;s also a position youth delegates to the Bali international climate talks can take into the international discussion.  

Youth climate activists: let&#039;s take up the banner and lead the way to a carbon neutral, sustainable enery future!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Carlos that youth should be the first (and perhaps the loudest) to take up this call for carbon neutrality.  We&#8217;ve got the most at stake and the least &#8216;inside-the-beltway&#8217; positioning to lose.  Youth have traditionally been at the vanguard of movements, calling for the most aggressive, most progressive action and the climate solutions movement should be no different.</p>
<p>I think we should make this message a central part of <a href="http://www.powershift07.org/" rel="nofollow">PowerShift 2007</a>.  PowerShift, or &lt;a href=&#8221;http://focusthenation.orgFocus the Nation would both present an excellent opportunity for a Port Huron-type youth statement of principles on the climate crisis that makes the call for complete climate neutrality central to our platform.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also a position youth delegates to the Bali international climate talks can take into the international discussion.  </p>
<p>Youth climate activists: let&#8217;s take up the banner and lead the way to a carbon neutral, sustainable enery future!</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Rymer</title>
		<link>http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51538</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos Rymer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/24/putting-aside-percentages-the-right-target-in-the-fight-against-global-warming-is-carbon-neutrality/#comment-51538</guid>
		<description>Whohooo!!! Rock on! I totally agree that we need to call for a climate neutral U.S. ASAP. Once we do all the right things, like shifting the massive subsidies to renewables, putting a heavy tax on carbon dioxide, cutting the costs of renewables and other necessary technologies within 5 years, and making a climate neutral call mainstream, we will become climate neutral, hopefully in less time than we currently think we can. If we go in imposing an annual cap, sectors will try to achieve annual targets, and sometimes fail. But if we start a revolution that calls for an aggressive, quick transition to a clean energy and energy efficient economy, we will make this transition fast! Carbon/climate neutrality shows the urgency of the problem, and urgency is what we need to make this transition quickly, hopefully within 20 years (of course, let&#039;s keep the dates out).

I think Step It Up needs to change 1 Sky&#039;s call. We suggested it earlier, and we should keep pushing for it. They need to make a major announcement that says that climate neutrality is what we want. We want to finish our contribution to global warming once and for all, and ASAP.

Great post! Everybody: please pitch in on this excellent call for a climate neutral U.S. If someone is going to be this aggressive, it&#039;s going to have to be us, youth, who have everything to lose from failure to avoid climate catastrophe. Forget what adults/policymakers think is feasible. We know we can make this nation climate neutral quickly because we&#039;re doing it on our campuses, in our communities, and in our states. We know that the U.S. has done similar things in the past. We know that this is the only way we can provide ourselves of a safe future. This should be the rallying call at Powershift 2007!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whohooo!!! Rock on! I totally agree that we need to call for a climate neutral U.S. ASAP. Once we do all the right things, like shifting the massive subsidies to renewables, putting a heavy tax on carbon dioxide, cutting the costs of renewables and other necessary technologies within 5 years, and making a climate neutral call mainstream, we will become climate neutral, hopefully in less time than we currently think we can. If we go in imposing an annual cap, sectors will try to achieve annual targets, and sometimes fail. But if we start a revolution that calls for an aggressive, quick transition to a clean energy and energy efficient economy, we will make this transition fast! Carbon/climate neutrality shows the urgency of the problem, and urgency is what we need to make this transition quickly, hopefully within 20 years (of course, let&#8217;s keep the dates out).</p>
<p>I think Step It Up needs to change 1 Sky&#8217;s call. We suggested it earlier, and we should keep pushing for it. They need to make a major announcement that says that climate neutrality is what we want. We want to finish our contribution to global warming once and for all, and ASAP.</p>
<p>Great post! Everybody: please pitch in on this excellent call for a climate neutral U.S. If someone is going to be this aggressive, it&#8217;s going to have to be us, youth, who have everything to lose from failure to avoid climate catastrophe. Forget what adults/policymakers think is feasible. We know we can make this nation climate neutral quickly because we&#8217;re doing it on our campuses, in our communities, and in our states. We know that the U.S. has done similar things in the past. We know that this is the only way we can provide ourselves of a safe future. This should be the rallying call at Powershift 2007!</p>
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